INT: Where I want to pick up is…. music. Talk about music in your life before GREASE. And there's got to be this moment when some of these people must have known you knew something about that, and as far as I know, none of your movies has somebody singing in them. [RK: No, no.] Oh there are Christmas songs in THE GATHERING, but...

RK: Yeah, yeah. No, I think that was just luck. I mean that was John [John Travolta] and Stigwood [Robert Stigwood] and Allan Carr going to parties and seeing Allan Carr, that all just came together in an amazing way. But no, nobody knew anything about any music connection with me. But I think you know, I liked rock and roll, I liked movie scores. I mean, I really learned so much from Basil Poledouris, who was a film student at USC with me. And he wanted to be a Director, but then he decided to switch over to scores, so he did scores for some of the student films and they were good and I started working with him a lot and the way Basil would work would be, he would sit and he'd come up with themes for the movies, themes for the characters or for the general tone of the movie and play it on this old piano of his. And I'd go over to his house and he would play, "How about this theme? How about this theme?" I'd say, "Oh that one is great, let's do that again." And we'd work that way for several movies we did that: BLUE LAGOON and SUMMER LOVERS and WHITE FANG. And then when it came to IT'S MY PARTY, I went to Basil and said, "You know, I remember when you first play these themes on your piano, and then I hear it with the big orchestra, it's great but there's a purity to when you play those themes for the first time on the piano, and I'd like to do the whole score of IT'S MY PARTY with you playing the piano." And he said, "No, no, no, no, I can't do that. I've never done that, I've never performed." I said, "Well, I know you can, 'cause I've sat with you all these years." So I kept pushing it and pushing it and finally he said yes, and he auditioned 90 pianos and found one and he was so nervous. But it's so beautiful because it's the only recording of him performing and it's really heartfelt and I think it's one of his best scores.

INT: And I'm gonna go back to first the issue of casting. [RK: Yeah.] What is your process in casting? And I'm gonna start with the smaller parts, what do you do?

RK: Well, I like to videotape in casting because a lot of times you have so many people coming through, and I've had several times where Actors have fallen through, and I've had to recast. And that's why I go back to the tapes. Smaller parts, usually the Casting Director helps me with that. Brings in three or four people and sometimes they're surprising choices and those are the ones I like to grab. But in terms of casting in general, videotape has saved my ass several times, because of people falling out and having to, "We have to recast this part, who do we go to?" And you can't remember really specifically how someone did a scene or who was right or what they look like and would they match the people that are left from the cast that didn't drop out?" And things like that.

INT: If I'm walking into your casting session for a movie, what's gonna happen? And particularly if it's not a, you know, big part. Maybe it's a day player or maybe I've got two or three you know, scenes. What'll happen?

RK: I like to go back to what I learned from Nina [Nina Foch] and actually from Mark Rydell, who I heard talked about this. And that is to try to make them feel at home like you're inviting them into your house, into your home. Mark particularly had some good points to ask them about their parents, or ask them about food. 'Cause people talking about food, you get a sense of them, and also talking about their parents you get a sense of them. With Nina always said, "Just try to make them comfortable and don't look at their resume and say, 'I see by here that you do, you know, a French accent.' Never do that, try to connect to them, make them feel at home." And that seems to have always worked pretty well except at the end of the day when you've done this and done this and done this, it can get so grueling that at times I've felt very bad about how I've handled it, 'cause I've just been so tired, I haven't been able to do that.

INT: How long will you take to see an Actor who's coming in?

RK: Probably about 10 or 15 minutes, you know, try to give them one adjustment, see what happens.

INT: Some people feel they have to immediately have an answer. To whatever question's being asked by the production, by an Actor. [RK:: Right, right, yeah.] Where are you on this?

RK: A lot of times I'm very open in saying, "You know, let me think about it," or, "Anybody have an idea?" I sometimes can do that, you know? I remember on WHITE FANG I had no idea what to do in this thing, I said, "Gee, I don't know what to do here, let me think about it," in front of the Crew. And I think a lot of them thought I was, I had lost some respect because I was so open about that. I got that feeling, you know? I was just saying what I felt. So I had to sort of like regain that, you know? You can't be too open.

INT: Let's, I want to stick on casting. [RK: Yeah.] And I want to move up to the level of known Actors. Do you want to meet or do you want to read them even if they're going to be resistant? Where are you on that?

RK: I have been in situations where big Actors have come in to read and I've felt a little sad because you know, I felt, "Why is you know, this person's wrong for the part." Like I remember for WHITE FANG, George C. Scott came in for the role of the older guy, but he was much too old for it. And so he walks in and I'm, "Oh my god, George C. Scott's sitting in front of me, he's reading this part, he's wrong for it. I just want to make him feel comfortable, I know he's not gonna get it." It made me feel bad. [INT: How did you handle it? I've worked with George, so I know who you're dealing with.] I just try to be as respectful as possible and thank him and I don't remember if I gave him an adjustment, I don't think I did, I just was intimidated because I knew he wasn't gonna get it. And I think he probably knew it too 'cause I think he knew he was too old for it. [INT: Let's stay with that part. Brandauer [Klaus Maria Brandauer] ended up playing this guy.] Yes he did. [INT: How did you cast him?] I didn't. The Studio cast him. They wanted a name that they thought would help the picture and I'd heard that he was difficult to work with, and actually I wanted Lance Henriksen for that role, 'cause he came in and read. And he'd only played really bad guys up 'til then and in the reading he was wonderful and I thought, "Wow, here's a chance for this Actor to show another side," you know? And he was really, really likeable and I really wanted him, but the studio said, "No, he's not big enough name so we're gonna go with Klaus," and so... [INT: Did you meet Klaus before you started?] No. [INT: Oh okay, we'll go there in a minute. But let's go to...] And he knew that the studio wanted him, and that he had the power. [INT: Got it.]

INT: I'm gonna go back to THE BOY IN THE BUBBLE [THE BOY IN THE PLASTIC BUBBLE], did you meet Travolta [John Travolta] before? [RK: Yes, I did.] And what was that experience? 'Cause here's this superstar of a television series.

RK: Yeah. Well, I went to his apartment on Doheny, and I noticed that in his dining room he had an airplane hanging there, and so we started talking about airplanes. And he said, "Yeah, I want to be a pilot," and all this stuff. And we just talked about airplanes the whole time, and he had seen PEEGE, and that was it. And then I got the gig.

INT: In GREASE you got another kind of superstar, Olivia Newton-John. How did that emerge?

RK: Well John and I both wanted Olivia to play the part, but she had had a bad experience doing a movie in England that didn't turn out well. It was a flop. And so she was afraid of doing another movie. She was also worried about looking older than John [John Travolta]. 'Cause she was 28, he was 19 I think or 20. I'm not... there was some age thing. And so she was worried that it was not gonna work. So she requested a screen test, which was very unusual. And she said, "I'll do it if I like the test." So our Cameraman Bill Butler built a rig of soft lights around the lens and John and I tried to treat her, make her comfortable on the set and... We did the scene in the drive-in and we were using the script from the movie script, it wasn't working. And we went back to the play and then it worked, and that's where we got the... And Joel Thurm came up with that idea and that's where we came up with the idea that we used later, to make an amalgamation of the script and the play. But after the screen test, she saw it and she liked it and felt comfortable so that's how that came about. [INT: Got it.]

INT: In terms of the other [GREASE] Cast, because you've got people like Didi Conn and some really... there are very specific caricature character Actors. How did you find them? Were some, you know, what was your process?

RK: Well a lot of them were from the play, and you know, that was a great help to me because on the set they had done this on Broadway, night after night after night and they knew where the laughs were, you know? So their timing was perfect, I didn't have to do much with a lot of the Cast who had been on the play because--[INT: Had Stockard [Stokard Channing] been in the play?] No. Barry Pearl had and Michael Tucci had… and the girl who plays not Marty, but... [INT: Not Didi? Didi had not been...] No, it was, "Brusha, brusha, brusha," that girl. Knew her so well. [INT: Now do you remember when Stockard, did she come in to read and sing? I'm asking because I know her as you know, a professionally sort of drama school Actress and she's coming out of this, I'm curious--] Jamie Donnelly, I'm sorry it's just caught up there. [INT: Got it. Stockard, do you remember how that--?] Stockard was a client of Allan Carr's and he really wanted her to do it, he pushed for her. And she seemed great. I don't recall her reading. But she must have. And the song, the ballad she sings was almost cut out because they thought it would slow the picture down, it was sort of sad and not up to the energy level of the rest of it. But I'm glad we kept it 'cause I think it's the best acted song. Well maybe “Hopelessly Devoted” was pretty good too. But that was real acting in that scene, song that Stockard was able to do and because she was a Broadway Actress, very accomplished.

INT: Let's talk about casting BLUE LAGOON. I want to stay on casting and go through. [RK: Sure.] Here you've got, you know, I mean how much has Brooke [Brooke Shields] done? And how did you decide? How did you decide on both of those?

RK: Well, I wanted Brooke Shields 'cause she had done PRETTY BABY with Louis Malle and she was playing a prostitute. And I knew that I needed somebody who was free enough to be an adolescent discovering sex, so she was my first choice. But the only guy I could think of that would be right for the boy was Willie Aames, who was very short. So I couldn't work with Willie and Brooke, so we went through a casting session and we found Diane Lane. So it was Willie Aames and Diane Lane were the cast. And we had Néstor Almendros waiting in Fiji and I got a call on a Friday from Willie who said, "Diane and I have decided we don't want to do nudity, so we're backing out." And so I said, "Okay, all right. So now I'll call Brooke and set her immediately." And then I had to find a boy to play opposite her. [INT: Now what agreement had you done with Brooke regarding nudity?] None, but I just knew that I had to shoot Monday and I needed somebody, so I could use a double. I didn't want to use doubles but now I was stuck and I had to use a double. So I set Brooke, and then I flew to New York to find a boy. And this is a totally true story. I got my brother and his friends, and I said, "Go to Central Park, and comb through it and meet at Columbus Circle and bring any tall blonde boys to Columbus Circle." And we all went out to do that and it was Puerto Rican Day, and there were no blonde boys. So we went through the old tapes and we found Chris Atkins [Christopher Atkins], who had like a pompadour and I said, "What if we took his hair and frizzed it, maybe that would work." We were panicked. And so that's what we did. We called Chris. "Hey, can you be in Fiji on Monday?" And that's how it happened. So we flew into Fiji, he had not met Brooke--[INT: Was there a discussion about nudity?] He was fine with nudity, he didn't care. But with Brooke, we were gonna use her stunt girl, so we made arrangements for her to fly down. And she broke her leg and was unable to come. And so we had a dolphin trainer down there, and we said, "Can you do the nudity?" And she said, "Okay." So it was just chaotic. And so we ended up using the dolphin trainer as the stunt double. She was 33. Brooke was 14. But it seemed to work. We had one shot where we had the dolphin trainer's breast… feeding a baby and then the camera went off to Chris and she jumped up and Brooke sat down and when we came back it was her face. Crazy.

INT: The two younger kids in that [THE BLUE LAGOON], how did you cast them?

RK: Well, we wanted to match Brooke [Brooke Shields] and Chris [Christopher Atkins], and so that was done pretty much that same weekend, you know? It was just so fast, I mean we had taped a lot of kids, but that's what I was talking about earlier, having tape to go zipping through and say, "Oh that one looks like it could match her," you know? And so… [INT: And in terms of those kids and nudity, how was that done?] That was interesting because the parents thought, "Why not?" I mean, they were underage and I think SAG changed their rulings after BLUE LAGOON, so that you can't do that anymore, you can't have innocent nudity of children, you can't. It never even occurred to me that there was anything odd about it because it was from the book and it was children growing up on an island alone and they were wide shots of them running along the beach, it was not like, you know, anything salacious. But when the movie came out they called it kiddie porn, and I went, "What?" But they did change the rules I believe after that. You can't now have any simulated love making with underage kids, underage Actors. [INT: Wow.]

INT: In casting SUMMER LOVERS, which I'm gonna jump to because of also the same issue and you know, all three of these Actors are naked at one time or another. Do you remember the casting process?

RK: The same thing happened to me. I had Dennis Quaid and I forget who the girl was. Or maybe it was just Dennis Quaid. Dennis Quaid called me on a Friday and said his wife wouldn't let him go and do the movie. She didn't want him on an island with two naked girls, so I had to recast over the weekend again. And that Saturday night I watched THE IDOLMAKER, that Taylor Hackford directed with Peter Gallagher. And I called I believe Sunday and offered the part to Peter, and he accepted it--[INT: Now the calls, this process you don't have Peter's personal phone number?] No, the casting girl--lady, Barbara Claman made the calls and set him, just you know, as we were close, very, very fast, similar to with Chris [Christopher Atkins] and Brooke [Brooke Shields]. Emergency casting, you know? So he accepted the part and Brooke I had... I mean Daryl [Daryl Hannah] I had seen in the commissary at Warner Bros. weeks before. She was doing BLADE RUNNER. And I sent her a note: "To the girl in the pink dress, if you're an Actress call this number for a screen test. This is not a joke." And I gave it to the waitress and I left 'cause I didn't want her to think I was trying to pick her up or something, so. And she called and she came in and got the part, so that's how that happened. Valérie Quennessen had been in John Milius' film, CONAN [CONAN THE BARBARIAN], and I talked to John and he said she was great to work with. And she had no problem with nudity. So with Peter [Peter Gallagher], he was reticent. Daryl was reticent. It took a while being there, but when you're in Santorini, and everyone's running around naked and you're filming on a nude beach and it just felt like it wore them down, and they said, "Why not? You know, it's fine." [INT: Would you have been able to figure out like you did on BLUE LAGOON? "If they resist, well then we’ll do this?"] Wow. I think I had made it clear that we had to have some nudity, it wasn't gonna be frontal. Well, with Peter it was frontal and he didn't mind. But with Daryl it was not frontal.

INT: Let's talk about casting kids because you've got, you know, NAVIGATOR [FLIGHT OF THE NAVIGATOR], you've got I BLEW UP THE KIDS [HONEY, I BLEW UP THE KID], you've got kids in obviously BLUE LAGOON. You've got kids in THE GATHERING, the young kid, I mean... [RK: Right.] You've got kids in the grandfather movie [PORTRAIT OF GRANDPA DOC]. [RK: Right, right.] I mean, so any process that you've learned in order to be able to sort of make your decisions?

RK: I think just sitting with them and making them feel comfortable and running the lines. I mean with Joey Cramer from FLIGHT OF THE NAVIGATOR, he did a wonderful reading which I have on tape where he was able to really get emotional, that's always a plus. If they can cry on cue, you know, that adds, puts them way at the top of the list for me 'cause usually that takes a long time. Just an instinct, I guess, for how they're gonna come across. [INT: And I want to talk about that for a second because in fact, you know, the little kid in HONEY, I BLEW UP THE KID has to cry. You know, and...] Well, those were twins. And they didn't know they were in a movie. I had to trick them into everything. Because they were two-years-old and you know, they quickly learned when they heard, "Rolling," "No rolling." And they learned, "I want to go to my trailer." You know, these are two-year-olds. So a lot of times I'd have to get like, they loved the guitar playing Kumbaya, so I would often have somebody play Kumbaya and I would turn the lights off on the set and have the Crew move away and try to get the kid in the right mood and then instead of rolling I'd do that because they would say, "No rolling," if I did that. And then just coerced them into that moment, it was very, very difficult. 'Cause like, it wasn't like that they even knew that we were making a movie.

INT: You've told two stories about casting where, you know, unexpected twists, a change, "Who knew this was gonna happen, it's the weekend, what am I going to do?" [RK: Yeah.] Are there other examples where, well, are there examples where you had to replace somebody? [RK: Oh yeah.] And how have you handled that?

RK: Very strange thing happened when we were doing the reading, the night before we started shooting IT'S MY PARTY. We had a reading at my house. And I was listening to the Actors voices and two of the Actors sounded identical. Their patterns. And they were in scenes together. And it just wasn't gonna work, 'cause there was no contrast and I had to fire the Actor. I had said, "Look, you are great, but it's just... it's like you're the same guy." And so we paid him and let him go and I was very sad because I really didn't want to lose him, but it just wouldn't have worked. Have you ever had that happen? [INT: No.] Oh.

INT: In casting Eric [Eric Roberts in IT’S MY PARTY], how did that happen?

RK: Eric, let's see. I originally had Chris Meloni [Christopher Meloni] playing that role and Viggo Mortensen playing the Gregory Harrison part. The studio had said, "Use unknowns," and so I found those two and they were unknown at the time, Chris Meloni and Viggo Mortensen. I said, "Here's my Cast." And they said, "We've changed our mind, we need names." And so I had to let them go. And I had worked with Gregory Harrison before a couple times. [INT: But when you were letting them go, what did you say to them?] Well, it was in the casting, we had not set them yet. I mean, but that's who I went to the studio and said, "Here's the tapes of the guys I liked." The unknowns. And then they said, "No, now we want knowns." And so I had heard that Eric [Eric Roberts] was hard to work with and I asked around about it and actually I think his wife or somebody came to me, oh I guess Joel was casting that, Joel Thurm, and he said, "He knows that he has a bad reputation, and he's gonna be on his best behavior for you, to reverse that." So that was clear that he was gonna try to use this movie as his turning point to say, "Hey, I'm not such a bad guy." And I was promised that. [INT: Did you meet him?] Yeah, I met him. And he was very, very friendly, very easy to work with. And I never had a problem with him. [INT: In creating this character because he, you know, look creating... at a particular time in our history in terms of the film, creating a gay character could be an exaggeration, it could be a cartoon, and in fact the gay men that you have in your piece have a variety of personalities. Some being more queenish.] Right. [INT: Others, who would know? And his is a really specific portrayal. And I found it honest and daring. And I'm curious how the two of you, you know, got this 'cause he could've gone overboard easily.] Yeah. I don't know. There was just something that happened and he captured the character perfectly that I had written, based on a real person. And I don't recall doing anything. It just... I probably did, but that was kind of a surreal experience 'cause it was almost like psychotherapy on a grand scale. [INT: I'll bet.] But so I don't remember clearly about how that happened. It was just felt like it just happened.

INT: I want to go to rehearsal, but before I do that I want to ask another casting question. When you did LOVEWRECKED? [RK: Yeah.] Those two, actually those three Actors, where did they come from? How did you--?

RK: Well, Amanda Bynes had a TV series and she had done a few comedy shows and so she was, I think the movie was built around her. And they came to me because I guess BLUE LAGOON have a similar kind of a thing, and it was a funny story. So I really liked Chris Carmack who came in, and I thought... [INT: Did you know he could sing? Or did he sing?] He didn’t, he hadn't sung before, but I asked him to sing and he was great. And the Producer types or the studio people said, "We gotta use another voice," and they brought in another voice and I said, "No, that guy's... he's fine but Chris has a good voice." They said, "No, we want the other guy." So I kept pushing and pushing and we shot it two ways with Chris' voice and the other guy's voice. And in the final cut I pushed and pushed and got Chris, because I think, you know, why replace an Actor's voice if it's okay? [INT: I also thought honestly 'cause I didn't recognize him when I saw this, I thought in fact he was a rock and roll star that you got to be an Actor.] I know. No, no. No, he was an Actor and he did a good job, so I pushed for him.

INT: All right, so I'm gonna ask a minor role [in LOVEWRECKED]. There's a heavyset woman who gets a massage. [RK: Oh yes.] Do you remember casting her?

RK: Of course. She's my good friend, Suzanne [Suzanne Kent]... so good that I've... [INT: How did you, is she an Actress?] Yes. She's in several movies of mine. Suzanne Kent. She was from The Groundlings. She was in WHITE FANG, she played the woman who pushed the guy over in the chair, I took her to Alaska for that. She was in LOVEWRECKED playing the woman getting the massage, and in fact one of the jokes was that she's supposed to be fat, but she wasn't fat enough so I had to have a stunt double come in for the fat part. And she was pissed off at me because all her friends thought she was filled with blubber. I think she was in a couple other films, but she's wonderful. She was in The Groundlings with Paul Reubens and Cassandra Peterson, you know, she was from that era. [INT: Speaking of Paul Reubens, you've got Pee-wee, how did you, how did that... I mean did they cast you in this sense? 'Cause Pee-wee already done I guess one of the movies, right?] Yeah. No, I worked with Paul [Paul Reubens], he did the voice for FLIGHT OF THE NAVIGATOR. And when we were trying to find a voice for a space character, we went down many roads trying to find something interesting and different and we used those devices that you use for people who have cancer, and we tried that. We tried all kinds of electronic things to make an interesting voice. And then I saw PEE-WEE’S PLAYHOUSE and I thought, "Wow, well maybe we should do that." And so we contacted him and he said he'd do the voice, but he didn't want his name to be used, so he went under Paul Mall, that was in the credits. But having worked with him in the ADR process at the end, we became friends and when it came to his next movie he asked for me. [INT: Got it, got it. You were cast in that one?] Yeah. Like Travolta [John Travolta] and GREASE.

INT: Let's talk about rehearsal. From the time you worked at USC with Nina [Nina Foch], who I think believes in rehearsal to the experiences of obviously television the first, those TV shows--[RK: Hardly any.]--they don't even... just barely knew their lines--[RK: Yes.] And you're shooting to, you know, the TV movies to GREASE and on. What's been your rehearsal process? How do you work that and does it change and what do you recall?

RK: Well, table reads starting with that, and finding out what questions they might have about the character. I usually write down a backstory for them of each character if I have time. And certainly on the ones I've written I have that, a lot of that, a lot of backstory. [INT: What will the backstories be? Let's go to IT’S MY PARTY where I assume you did write backstories?] Yes. [INT: What will they be? Will they be a page long? Would they be detailed? What would they be?] Yeah probably about two pages and based on the real people. And I interviewed everybody who was at the party and got dialogue straight out of what happened. And wrote that down and integrated that. And I wrote about them and their relationship with Harry [Harry Stein] and so yeah, it was--

INT: When you're doing one of those biographies and we can maybe concentrate on that as an example, are you doing sort of like, "He grew up," or, "She grew up in this place." Are you talking about character traits or personal... I'm just interested in if I got one of these things what might be some of the content that you'll want the Actor to be aware of.

RK: Yeah. I think mostly about the relationship they have with the main character. And what type of person they are if they're like an extrovert, introvert or whether they, you know, have religious beliefs heavy or you know, how... everything that would react to what's happening in the story pretty much, rather than where they were born or anything like that. [INT: Got it, got it.

INT: In rehearsal, all right you... read-throughs, how do you set up the table read? What do you do?

RK: Well it could either be around a table or in a living room. And you know, we just read through the whole script once, all the way through without stopping and then start going through each scene and talking about it. First I think it's good to just read it all through with, just to see what their first instincts are of how they play it. And then break it down scene by scene and talk about it. [INT: Now how many days are you gonna work if you can, how many days are you able to work at the table like you're just describing this?] I'd say about two really, and then... [INT: And who do you want to be there?] The Producer, the Writer, well not in case it's me sometimes. But the Producer and the Writer, pretty much. And then when we get it on its feet, the Cameraman's nice to have 'cause for blocking, you know, it's always great to have an eye saying, you know, "What about here? What about that?"

INT: I'm gonna jump back to just casting because of what you just said. Who do you like to have in the room when you're casting?

RK: The Casting Director, just the Casting Director. I mean, often times the Producer will want to be there, and that's fine, but we don't really need them because I like to show the choices rather than the whole process. [INT: And in terms of if you're reading, which you clearly do after you talked about food and family, if you're reading who's doing the reading with that Performer?] Casting Director. I don't like to do the reading because I'm trying to look at what they're doing, you know? And if you're playing the scene with them, it's very hard to... I find it hard to… [INT: Got it.]

INT: So in rehearsal, if you now working scenes and I assume things like IT’S MY PARTY would demand that, I assume some of the musical numbers in GREASE would demand that…[RK: Demand rehearsals?] That you would want to be able to rehearse before you're actually on set. [RK: Oh yeah. We had five weeks of rehearsal on GREASE.] And of that, let's stay with that for a second, of the five weeks what would be going on?

RK: Well in the morning we would do the process that I mentioned earlier where we were combining the play and the screenplay and coming up with comedy beats, many pulled from the play. And then we would have at lunch or just during lunch we would rehearse with Pat Birch [Patricia Birch] the intros from the dialogue into the music, 'cause that's a very important transition to make work 'cause if it doesn't it's just suddenly they’re singing. It has to sort of like go easily into it. So we would rehearse that and try to make that smooth, so that the dialogue would go right into the music. [INT: Which of the numbers, of the song numbers were more challenging for you to make that work? 'Cause I could see “Sandra Dee” [“Look at Me, I’m Sandra Dee”] might work easily, whereas some of the others might be...] Well, the play was written in the way that they were kind of built-in, some of them. “Summer Nights” with the boys and girls singing back and forth, that was really nicely written by Jim Jacobs and Warren Casey and it worked on Broadway and so that was pretty much easy to do. The new songs, Sandy at the drive-in, that was easy because John [John Travolta] just sort of was all upset and he starts singing and that worked. And “You're the One That I Want” I think it sort of came out of rehearsal I guess when he first sees her and, "Tell me about it, stud." And then the music starts, I mean it just sort of fell into place.

INT: Did you, as you're looking at that particular moment [“You’re the One That I Want” in GREASE]. [RK: Yeah.] As you're in rehearsal, because I know you have a visual sensibility, is your mind also like in this transition, "Ah, that's gonna work," you know, "Tell me about it, stud." But also, "How am I gonna reveal?" or is your mind at the rehearsal not on the camera? Where is your visual sense in rehearsal?

RK: Well I always knew that you know, we'd want to go up her like, it's done a million times in movies where you start on the feet and go up to the girl, ‘cause this was a big reveal for the character and so we always knew we were gonna start at the feet and go up. And you know, that song, you know, I didn't hear that song 'til the day we shot it. You know? It was delivered to the set and I had never heard it. So we had to slap that together at the last minute and there was really no... Pat Birch [Patricia Birch] and I looked around at these carnival rides and said, "What about in there? Let's walk in." We walked in, so then we saw these things that are going up and down and back and forth. "Can you do something there?" I mean it was all thrown together that day. That particular song was just improvised, the whole thing. [INT: But there's so many shots in that sequence.] Well, we had to go back and build part of the set because we didn't get a lot of shots. And the carnival had moved on, so we had reproduced parts of it, it was really, really slapped together really fast.

INT: This is jumping to a deeper level, what do you do with the anxiety that emerges at these moments? You've now told me at least four experiences that it makes me anxious hearing them. [RK: I know.] I've dealt with the Sunday casting. [RK: Yeah, yeah.] I saw that. That one at least I... and I remember how anxious I was about that. [RK: Right.] But what do you do with anxiety?

RK: Wow, good question. Well I try to get massages at night when I'm shooting, that's always nice. Breathe. I think you try to zone out, zen out. Zone or zen out. And just try to... I think that's a little bit of that, you know? Just trying to... when things go crazy just try to get calm, more calm than normal. [INT: Did you learn that from others?] I don't think so, I just knew that, that's my defense mechanism. And people are always amazed when the shit's hitting the fan that I'm kind of like, "Okay," or something like that. And inside I'm going…but I'm able to project calmness and I think that helps a lot. 'Cause if the Director is crazed, it goes to everybody. I think if I can act calm, people around me get calm. [INT: Got it.] And that's it. [INT: That's actually, from my point of view, that's a real good lesson.]

INT: I want to talk more about rehearsal. I don't know if this has happened to you in rehearsal, when an Actor says, "Oh, I can't do this, I don't agree." What's your process in rehearsal? Not on set, but in rehearsal.

RK: Well, I'll listen to them and if they have a point then I'll try to adjust it. If I disagree, that's where the big problem is. Then it’s a matter of trying to talk them into it or explain to them why their idea doesn't work in the big picture maybe. So, "Yeah, it would work for that character but for the story," you know, things like that. That's how I do it. [INT: Got it. Was GREASE the longest rehearsal period in terms of anything?] Yes.

INT: Where do you stand in terms of the process? Do you want rehearsals and if they're getting resistance, how do you get them?

RK: Well, you know, it's funny because some Actors don't like rehearsal as you know and others love it. So you have to sort of feel out your Cast and whether they're the types that love it, like if they're from theater usually they want rehearsal and then you have to fight for that. But others like to be spontaneous and so I think it depends on the material and the Actors really, what you fight for or don't fight for. [INT: Have you asked Studios or Executives, "Give me rehearsal time."] Yes, but usually it's done not on the clock. I've always, always gotten them to come over for dinners or you know, "Do you want to come this weekend and go through the script?" type thing and they're not being paid. I don't think I've ever really had paid rehearsal except for GREASE. [INT: And as you go through, after that table read, are you learning and scenes that you want to rehearse? And what's making you say that to yourself?] Well some of them play really well and others you say, "Oh this is not working." And then you have to start work with the Writer or adjust it in some way. But you learn a lot from that first read, what things snap and which makes you go, "Ugh," drop you know? [INT: Were there, onn IT’S MY PARTY, were there scenes for you that said, "I know we really need to work this scene." And one of the things I ask is because there are group scenes you know, that in fact becomes really sort of fascinating between those scenes in that movie where, you know, they're more private scenes. And there are scenes where the entire community in that is part of it. And to get that dynamic of we know each other, you know...] Well, you know I hired a guy named Lou Liberatore. Lou is an Actor and Joel [Joel Thurm] brought him in, he's been an Actor and acting coach and all that. And I gave him all the character backgrounds. And I spent time with him telling him how they were all related, and then I had him, when we were shooting, he would go and sit in the trailer with each of the Actors and go through the background and talk about how they were related to each person in this, which we had already gone through ahead of time. So he was like my surrogate to really get specific with the Actors, so that when we had those group scenes, they all knew how they were related, and I could roll the cameras and they all had radio mics, like I learned from Altman [Robert Altman], and then we could turn them up and down as the camera went through. And I knew that they would be relating properly to each other because they'd all done that research. [INT: Got it.] So in a way that was rehearsal where I wasn't there, I just set it up.

INT: Well, you know, since though you obviously... well that's a whole issue about trust of the people that you're working with. And you've now talked about this twice. Now this with him, and also with Néstor [Néstor Almendros]. Where you're saying, "I've hired these people. And they are gifted, I'm gonna let them do the work and bring it back to me." Where's your confidence that says, "I don't have to micromanage." Or is that part of, you know, are you always sort of looking at yourself in that way?

RK: Well, if you hire people that you really respect, like for instance Ron and Valerie Taylor, who I had seen from BLUE LAGOON, they did all the underwater stuff, and like I said I gave them storyboards, just they went off and did it. I had seen a lot of their underwater photography and I saw that they were able to do screen direction things, they knew all that, they knew all that. And so just giving them pictures, they went off and did it. With Néstor, obviously I'd seen DAYS OF HEAVEN. With Lou [Lou Liberatore] for instance, I had seen him act and Joel Thurm had told me he was really good with other Actors. And so yeah, you start to trust these people and hire good people and let them do their thing. [INT: What do you do when you're disappointed? How do you handle it? And have you had that?] I'm sure I have, and I'm sure I've blocked it. Try to fix it in some way, I really can't think of an example now 'cause I do think I block those memories. [INT: Do you lose your temper?] Never. I'm always able to control my temper, so on the set nobody ever sees me going through anything. [INT: Got it.]

INT: What's your process of scheduling? How do you think about that?

RK: Well, exteriors first because if it rains, you know, you can go inside. I always love as most people love to shoot in order if possible. Save the really heavy-duty scenes for later. It doesn't always work out; I mean I had one show where the first day of shooting I had a naked love scene between two Actors who hadn't met. That was unfortunate scheduling, but you know, "Hi, how are you? Take off your clothes, okay, go at it." It was really... [INT: What show was that?] That was SHADOW OF DOUBT. It was the rap star screwing the girl doggy style. And that was their first day. [INT: I mean so how did you even communicate to these two people?] Well, the best thing with love scenes is to choreograph it like it's a dance or like it's a, you know, be very specific about all the moves, so that it doesn't feel like they're having to reveal a lot personally, you know, they're just going through the motions in a way if they're feeling awkward. If they're free, then you just say, "Oh just do whatever you want," you know. But if they're feeling awkward you just, "Okay, put your hand here and then do that," and then they're thinking of, "Oh, I'm following that direction," you know?

INT: You know, I was thinking about... we'll stay on the sex scene again for a minute because of in SUMMER LOVERS, there's the big closeups, the first sort of mutual kiss where in between. [RK: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.] Do you remember how that... 'cause it's very visually specific as well as in terms of their relationship.

RK: It was very... it was a bit tense I think I remember in that scene. Because I wanted to get the right feel for it, I knew that for the American audience it had to feel like the two girls were sharing the guy, and at that point there was not, that the girls weren't relating. It was an instinct I had about trying to be commercial there, it was not trying to be real. And so to stage it in a way that that was clear, 'cause this was I figured was every straight male's fantasy, was to have the two girls fighting over him or wanting to be focused on him, and so I just staged in a way that it was clear that the girls never connected. [INT: In dealing with... I mean, this is... I'm thinking of IT’S MY PARTY, you got two men in bed, I assume, I may be wrong, that these guys were both straight.] Yep. [INT: And yet their affection and their physicality seems natural and warm.] Well, I think-- [INT: As they used to say in England, "That's acting," but still.] Yeah, that's acting. I think that, I try to do any scenes between Greg [Gregory Harrison] and Eric [Eric Roberts] in bed later so that they got to be friends and that's how we did that. And they got to be, you know, close buddies in a way, so that it was easy for them to touch each other without feeling awkward or weird. [INT: And in terms of scheduling, was that also part of?] Yeah. [INT: 'Cause I'm talking about with your AD [Assistant Director] saying, "Okay, let's make this scene later rather...".] Yes. Later, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And the kiss between them was very, very late in the schedule. I think near probably the last couple days maybe. Because that had to feel real and even with acting it's I think hard to, if you're a straight man, kiss another man with passion, you know? Like I would imagine. [INT: Got it.]

INT: Back with your AD [Assistant Director], let's go jump back there. In terms of scheduling, what's your rela--'cause the AD's thinking a certain way, they don't always necessarily ever thinking only in terms of your needs, but also in terms of production needs. What's your dialogue with your Assistant Director under this situation of scheduling?

RK: You mean talking about love scenes and stuff? [INT: No, no, no, just in general.] Oh, in general? In general. [INT: In terms of when you're scheduling a movie.] What works to get the thing done the fastest with the least amount of money, you know? I'm very aware of budget, and I've never gone over and never gone over on schedule. I'm very aware that that's how you survive in this world. And even in my very first MARCUS WELBY [MARCUS WELBY, M.D.], I was aware of that and I know that I analyzed how it was scheduled normally there was like... I think they were done in six days? I'm not sure. [INT: Yep, they were.] And one day was on location and five days in the studio. And there was a scene at an airport and they were planning to go to Burbank Airport and I said, "Well let's just go in the backlot and we'll put some Christmas tree lights in the pattern of a runway, and shoot it with a piece of cyclone fence." And so by doing that we didn't go out the fourth, fifth, sixth day and I saved 10,000 dollars. I came 10,000 under on my first show. That was very specifically figured out. [INT: You know, this issue about, that because you've gone through the process of working in film and then working into digital, working when people were only shooting single camera mostly and working to multiple cameras and the idea that in those days an hour show, which actually was longer than an hour show that has advertisements is today were done in six days with single camera.] Right. [INT: And now I think the minimum is eight if not more.] And a lot more money too, right? [INT: Yeah and multiple cameras.] Yeah. Yeah. [INT: So it's a fascinating sort of, the evolution of time.] Yeah. [INT: In terms of how these things work.] Well that's what I was saying that it was very hard to do anything interesting in a day's shooting, if you could get two interesting shots you were really way ahead of the curve.

INT: Let's talk about storyboarding. [RK: Yeah.] When and how much and what do you do?

RK: Well, at the beginning of every day I write, I draw everything I want to shoot that day. And sometimes it changes but I pretty much work out what the singles, the overs, the masters, the camera moves, all written out. And I show it to the DP [Director of Photography] and the AD [Assistant Director] at the beginning of the day and we try to stick to it. Or if something interesting comes up we switch it. [INT: And how will you do this? What's your process? Where are the drawings?] I have a script on one side and the drawings on the other in my thing and I just Xerox the side and give that out with the scene numbers. [INT: Got it. And these are mostly yours? Or will you work with...] They're mine if it's simple. If it's a very complicated sequence I'll get a Storyboard Artist to come in or a visual effects scene, you know, then we bring in storyboard guys.

INT: Now this is a very, very important question I'm about to ask you. What do you do when you're in the van looking for locations?

RK: Oh man. That's such a hassle, I hate that. I really hate it. It's horrible. I try to zone out just go, "Mm." It's the worst part of making movies is the location scout. When you get there it's fine but the traveling in the van, you're absolutely right, it's horrible. [INT: It's true. You know, I know some Directors who are good joke tellers so that helps, bu--] Oh yes, I wish. [INT: Others plugged in sound systems.]

INT: All right, let's talk about working with Production Designers. What's your process?

RK: Well, I like to work with Production Designers who are artists, who draw because we can communicate that way, I can do something simple and they can fill it out or they can come with really cool ideas. And I love to work with the artists, you know? Not just guys who have good taste who know sets and stuff. But always people who can draw.

INT: Well let's look at some of the production challenges. I'm gonna do BOY IN THE BUBBLE [THE BOY IN THE PLASTIC BUBBLE] first. You've got a specific kind of set that's going to have to be constructed either on location, I guess, or whether you built some of these things. How did that, the glass container for the... I mean, how does that evolve for you?

RK: We did it with research, I mean the Lanair I think it was called built a set that Travolta [John Travolta] was in, was a real set, the thing that was used. Yeah. It has air blowing out, so that no molecules or bacteria can get in. It's a room that has an opening in it and wind is constantly blowing out. So that was a real thing, that was not a set. Then the box that he was in when he was being traveled was based on photos of the boy, David [David Vetter], from Texas that it was about. And we saw photos of that and we just reproduced that exactly. [INT: By the way, did that boy see the movie?] That boy died when he was 12, so he didn't see the movie. Yeah. We sort of like expanded him through teen years. [INT: Got it, got it.]

INT: The suit that he's in, now this is more costume than it is production design, but it has a bit of that too. Do you remember the evolution and the choice of color? Any of those things?

RK: Well that was again based on the boy, the real boy. And I believe the colors and everything were just exactly reproduced. [INT: Got it.]

INT: And in terms of that movie [THE BOY IN THE PLASTIC BUBBLE], did you build anything? And where are you, 'cause I know some of your movies obviously are movies that have been made on sets and some have been more location. Where are you on that? What do you prefer? How do you make those decisions?

RK: Well I really love working on a stage because you have total control and designing a set is wonderful because you can figure out what angles you want and get them, you know, instead of having to worry about, "Can you get the camera in there? Is it big enough?" And, "Can you move?" And you know, there's so many problems with location shooting. And stages are great. [INT: And yet so many of your movies, primarily location movies.] Were location movies. Right. Well because I didn't have huge budgets too. I've worked mostly on small budget movies. [INT: Got it. In choosing, like, I assume PEEGE was all location, right?] Yes. [INT: Was BOY IN THE BUBBLE?] No, no, we shot at Fox, all the interiors with John [John Travolta].