INT: How did your role as a First AD [First Assistant Director] differ when working with a novice Director or with a veteran Director?

TJ: Well, I think with a novice Director, you go a little out of the way to make sure that he understands, you know, what’s going on, or just, I think, you’re a little more offering of your services to make sure if there’s anything he needs to know or does he need any help, where does he feel--is there anything he would like support in or want more assistance in? Does he feel good about what’s going on? Maybe even insofar as to have, you know, reviewing shot lists with him. Does he want help with shot lists, or does he want help in staging or things of that nature. Just trying to be as much of service to him as you can. With an experienced--[INT: Do, you know, do you ever suggest that he can avail himself of the experience of the Cameraman, of the Script Supervisor, you know?] Oh sure. Absolutely, ‘cause I think they’re all there to collaborate and help, help him. I know in episodic television, there’s a lot of first time Directors that come out and a lot of Cameramen really guide them through the, guide them through the day’s work. Whether with the Script Supervisor--[INT: And the First AD?] And the First AD, absolutely. They can walk ‘em right through it. It’s just a, it’s just a matter of making yourself available to them and encouraging them to solicit whatever help they need in wherever.

INT: Okay, so the schedule is done; you’ve had your production meeting; you’ve had your location scouts, first day of shooting and subsequent 50, 60, 70 days of shooting, each night--what do you do the night before a day of shooting, or do you just take two martinis and go to bed?

TJ: No, you can--well, you certainly review the next day’s work. In fact, you do that--I’m generally one or two days ahead of the shooting schedule that I review on a nightly basis, so that I can speak intelligently about the call sheet for the next day, the next day. And if there’s any other issues that need to come up, and I certainly gonna have a conversation with my Second [Second Assistant Director] to make sure that he’s, you know, hit all the bases he was supposed to hit, and everybody’s notified about all the different elements. And there’s conversations with the Production Manager [UPM] over concerns that I might see coming up later in the schedule: “Is this taking care of, is that taking care of? Is the Art Department aware of this,” or, “have these arrangements been made,” or, “is locations aware of this.” It’s just kind of looking through that shooting schedule, that advance schedule to, to make sure that all that work is prepared and taken, taken care of. And if there’s any flags that pop up from the advance, just to mention it to the appropriate department head to make sure it’s taken care of.

INT: Are there any processes, procedures, forms, approaches that you think are uniquely yours as an AD [Assistant Director]?

TJ: Wow. I don’t know. I think everybody makes notes in their script, everybody makes notes in their schedule, everybody makes, everybody has there little… I don’t know if there’s anything that’s uniquely mine. No, I don’t think there’s anything that’s uniquely mine.

INT: You mentioned that, that you prepared two days in advance or three days in advance. Do you wanna go over just add a little bit more detail exactly about exactly what, what’s--you come home at night after day shooting, you have dinner--

TJ: It’s just reading the scenes on the call sheet, going through and reading the, reading the advance scenes. And it’s usually limited to the advance ‘cause it pops up. If it’s stuff that we’re talk--it depends on the schedule, depends on the shot, depends on the sequence we’re talking about. But as a rule, if you can stay the three or four days that are on the bottom on the, of the advance, those are the items you can deal with them in time for them to come up with. [INT: So you really are concentrating more two and three days ahead instead of the next morning’s work?] Well, no. You certainly read the next days work ahead the next day. And I generally try to do that before I really unwind, even before I leave the studio at night or when I first get home, ‘cause once I kick off the shoes and really relax, I’m--my attention span is gone. [INT: Each morning, you get up in the morning at whenever the call time, you know, are usually there at call a half-hour before call, an hour before call , and then what do you do first thing up? Do you have meetings with anybody or do you--] As a First AD [First Assistant Director], what I always like to do is go to the first shot, go to the location of the first shot and stand there. And encourage the Director to report, you know, to come and see me when he gets in and the Cameraman, because if you’re at the catering truck, there’s a--the whole crew’s at the catering truck. If you’re standing on the set where the first shot is, the Gaffer’s gonna wander over, the key grip will wander over. You’ll get that first set-up, and then, you know, the trainee or the Second AD [Second Assistant Director] can bring a sandwich over to you. But at least you get that first set up first thing in the morning and get the crew working on that. Then once that’s been established, then you can kind of fall back and let everybody get their breakfast burrito or what have you. [INT: So let’s say call time, let’s say general crew call is 7:30. What time do you usually show up at that first, the first location?] Well, if crew call is at 7:30, I like to be, I like to have my burrito by 7:15, and then wander over. [Laughs] I like to be on, I like to be on the set at good, on the set at call time. I mean I like to be at the, at the location probably, you know, a half-hour, 15, 20 minutes before call. But that’s time to get my, get my breakfast burrito, but certainly by call time, I wanna be on the location of that first shot. [INT: And how do you get the day going or is that dependent upon--] Well getting that first set up, and then I’m, you know, just there on your walkie-talkie, you know, encouraging the ADs [Assistant Directors] to get that first team through, through make-up and hair and to the set as quickly as possible--[INT: And I would imagine--]--and getting it blocked out, and then talking to the department heads about the next shot, and the shot after that. And try to keep the company three shots ahead of you as you shoot. [INT: And I would imagine it really varies from Director to Director, ‘cause, you know, and also from work to work, because, you know, some Directors will want the cast there to work out their first set-up. When some cast--some Directors will say, “Now I know exactly what my first shot is, leave them in make-up and hair.”] Well, even if the--usually the Cameraman certainly has a fair amount of work to do even before the cast steps on the set for that first rehearsal. I mean there’s certain amount of roughing in with the lights before he’s even ready to see a rehearsal and if he can at least tell him the angle and the direction that you’re looking at, he can go to work and he can start his work. And then when he gets roughed in, then you can bring the first team in for, for actual marks.

INT: As a First AD [First Assistant Director], how do you, how do you interact, how much and how do you interact with the Actors?

TJ: Well, I try to keep it always on a professional level, never on a personal level. There’s kind of an unspoken adage that is whispered about a kindness to an Actor never goes unpunished. And I say that in humor and jest, because if you develop too close of a relationship with the Actors, they’re gonna go, “Can I have a later call? Can you schedule it so I don’t have to be in this day?” And they’re always asking favors and favors and favors. But I always try to keep it professional. There’s a, usually with working with a star [Actor], whenever he’s called to the set, whenever he arrives to the set, I will try to make it a point to go down and say, “Good morning. Glad you’re here. I just wanna let you know you’re the, we’re so far away from your first shot. We expect to have you in,” just to make them feel at home. There’s just a couple of stars [Actors] that I found that really makes a big difference with, just to greet them and just so they know that you know that they’re there and they’re, they’re being met and dealt with when they’re first there; someone from production is there dealing with them. Otherwise they feel, “Well, they called me in an hour too soon. They don’t need me. Why am I here,” and they start fussing and fuming and pretty soon, there’s a whole attitude before the Actor even comes to the set. So when they first arrive, if you can go down and greet them, and say, “Hello, you’re here and this is what we’re doing. We expect to be to you here,” and just kind of give them a little lay of the day, I think they’re very appreciative of it and it goes a long way towards solidifying your relationship with the Actor. He feels he has someone he can trust, rather than just waiting for them to appear on the set.

INT: What are, what’s the importance of rehearsal time for the Director’s team, but also for the rest of the crew? I mean…

TJ: Are you talking, speaking about pre-production rehearsal or on the set rehearsing the scene? [INT: No. On the set.] Well, I think its important for the, for the, obviously, with the technical crew to get the sidelines of the shot, and to get what the scope of the shot is, so that when they go on to finally light the set, you have a sense of what your sightlines are, and you can stage the appropriate background action, and make sure that the background is clear and properly dressed and ready for shooting. I mean I think that rehearsal period is, is important to, to really establish what’s being seen.

INT: Do you--without mentioning names, can you recall any really serious problems with Actors, and how you went about dealing with them?

TJ: Yes.[Laughs] [INT: You don’t have to mention names or projects. No, I mean, you don’t have--] Yes, I can recall. Do I wanna share them? I don’t know. [Laughs] [INT: No names and no projects. But I mean as guide, as a guidance to other aspiring Assistant Directors, how have you successfully dealt with problematic Actors or actually, problematic crew?] I’ve always found, just, again, not to take anything personally, and to give them always the benefit of the doubt and just to approach them in good cheer, and let them do whatever it is they do, and just be totally immune to it. You have to kind of pull out your own little S. A. G. [Screen Actors Guild, SAG-AFTRA] card and say, “Okay. I’m gonna pretend like none of this affects me, and I really don’t care,” and just go in and deliver the information in a calm and straightforward manner. Leave the information and you say what you had to say and leave. [INT: What happens, what happens if an Actor, Actor, you know, you get a radio call from the Second AD [Second Assistant Director] saying, “Joe is not gonna come out of his dress room, he’s not gonna come out of his dress room, what do you do then? Do you deal with it or do you tell the Director for him to deal with it?] I think you, I think you make the Director aware that the Actor is not coming out of the dressing room. Somebody needs to deal with it, “Would you like me to go down? Would you like to go down? Or should we have a Producer go down? Here’s the situation.” I’ll be, “What would you like to do?” Often times, the Director, because of a relationship, may prefer to go down. Maybe the Director is aware of why he’s not coming out. Maybe the Producer's aware of why he’s not coming out. It’s something I’ve always been aware of that, with Actors, specifically, there’s oftentimes another agenda going on. It might be about the next episode, it might be about a script change that was promised that didn’t occur. So sometimes it’s happening on different levels. So rather than just going in uninformed to try to deal with the issue, I think it’s best to let the various parties--the Producer and the Director--know and see who’s gonna down and deal with the situation. [INT: So it really is, you know, you have to have the intelligence and the experience and the intuition to deal with each situation as it arrives differently. I mean there’s no two, there’s no two…] Exactly. Exactly. Right. And oftentimes, there’s another agenda out there. Something else is causing this whole thing entirely, so it could be a miscommunication between--somebody promised him something, and he’s reacting. And it’s their only way that an Actor can fight back is act up on the set. There was a George Peppard story. He has a, an exclusion in his insurance for sinus problems. And he was having a disagreement with a Producer, and he liked me. I was the First [First Assistant Director] on a show that he was doing. And he called me into his dressing room, and he said, “I just wanted you to know that I’m likely to have a sinus attack tomorrow morning.” And I was very grateful for that information, so I had another day’s work prepared. I mean he was on the call sheet, but I had a cover call, and I had a back up date to go to work in the event that his sinus attack, which did occur, occurred. And we just went on with it. And, of course, with that exclusion it means the company wasn’t insured for his absence. So that was his way of fighting back with the Producer, but he was kind enough to let me know by giving me a heads-up about it. [INT: That's very thoughtful.] Yeah.

INT: Are there any, any advice about dealing with above-the-line personnel, be it the Producers, Director, production executives, cast?

TJ: I would, again, always be conscious of another agenda, because a lot of times there are other things going on that you might not be aware of on your level. They may have instructions from, from the studio or some other issue going on. I’d also encourage to be just extremely professional and limit your conversations to what’s--it should be limited to. [INT: Same advice for dealing with below-the-line-personnel?] I would think so. I try to keep dealing on the set fairly, fairly professional. Dealing--not getting--don’t air your dirty laundry or clean laundry for that matter in public. You can certainly--that doesn’t mean you can’t have pleasant conversation with people, but, I mean---

INT: What’s the, what’s the full range of preparation that you’ve experienced with various Directors, both as a UPM and as a First AD [First Assistant Director] in terms of going anywhere from winging it, you know, winging almost the entire 50, 60, 70 day shoot to having very detailed shot lists? I mean what has been your--you don’t have to mention the first example--[TJ: Well, right, right.] But if you have, you have good examples of Directors like Clint Eastwood who does, who does prepare well…

TJ: He’s very well prepared, very--he doesn’t have a shot list that you’re, that you’re available to pass out, but I’m sure his shot list is in his script. He knows exactly what he’s gonna do. I haven’t really had that much experience with Actors who, with Directors who wing it. I will say that they’ll come out and do a free-form rehearsal to find out, let the Actors run the scene, see what they wanna go, and stage it on the spot. And they’re, that’s a knack that they have and they’re very good at staging it. And they’ll talk to the Cameraman and get a sense of, you know, what the best background is and things of that nature. And they’ll just, like, float--but I wouldn’t say that they’re winging it. I think they’ve done the preparation; they know they have a good sense in their mind of the type of shot they want, but the actual staging and what they might leave to the Actors, giving them the freedom to move and do what they wanna do. But I don’t think I’ve ever really worked with a Director who just was deer in the headlights, didn’t know what he wanted to do on the set. [INT: Other than Clint Eastwood, what other Directors come to mind that come to the set very prepared?] Oh gosh. [INT: You know, very decisive.] Ha, Ha--was it Harvey Laidman [Harvey S. Laidman], I think, used to have a computerized--[INT: Probably.] He used a computerized shot list with degree of difficulty at the bottom of the day. Today’s a 5.7 or a 6.8. [INT: That sounds like something Harvey would do.] I mean, he would really have a degree of difficulty in the day. But I know John Badham always had a finite set list. There’re a lot of Directors work that way with a finite set list.

INT: Are Directors more--are Directors more and more using storyboards today than they did, let’s say, 15, 20 years ago? And what about previsualization?

TJ: I think--storyboards, I think, are necessary when there’s visual effects involved; when there’s complicated action sequences or special effects involved. But just for ordinary, straightforward dramatic scenes, I don’t really feel storyboarding is necessary just for straightforward story telling. I mean--by that I mean having a professional storyboard artist come in and do it. I know a lot of Directors make little doodle pencil sketches and do their own storyboards and that certainly I think is a very common thing that they do just to get a sense in their own mind of how they’re staging, and what they’re doing, and what their coverage might be. But those are just kind of lose pencil sketches that I guess they’ve sort of storyboarded in their own minds eye. But that’s just part of the thought process of them thinking it through. With regards to pre-vis [previsualization], I think when you’re dealing with fantastic or special effects, or science fiction things, I think you may get into pre-vis or other than living in the real world, when you start, you know, dealing in things that are not quite of the real world, you might start doing some pre-vis things. One thing that always concerns me, you know, is something that I saw on WHAT DREAMS MAY COME, they were doing these wonderful wide sweeping shots in pre-vis, but then you said, “Now wait a minute. How are we gonna physically do that? What are we gonna put the camera on? How are we gonna get it from here to way over there in that amount of time?” I mean, when you look at the hundreds of feet that that camera would have to travel, what would it be on and how would it get there? It was--pre-vis is an interesting tool, but I think you really have to understand the physics of working on the set with pre-vis. I think it is a--[INT: Yeah, but nowadays there’s so many cable cameras and helicopter and, you know, mod--you know, model helicopter cameras--] Sure, there’s all kinds of tools, but there aren’t necessarily the budget to accommodate those tools or the availability of them. But it’s, it’s a tool, and it’s a very valuable tool. And I think that if the project can accommodate and you have the budget to afford it, to bring it in to create whatever you can come up with in your pre-vis planning, you’re fine.

INT: Just as I, just as we discussed what you do the night before in preparation for the next day’s work as a First AD [First Assistant Director] and what you do first thing up in the morning by going, going to the set and standing on the set while everybody starts to drift over to you; during the course of the day, how do you keep the flow of, how do you keep the flow of activity moving along as a First AD and how do you keep track of how you’re doing for the day, whether you’re falling behind or not? Is it more than just instinct or are there specific things that you, you use?

TJ: Well, you kind of look at your call sheet, and figure out where you should be by, you know, halfway through the morning, by lunchtime, by halfway through the afternoon, and not--on based on the pace of the day, are you kind of adhering to that or not? And as you’re approaching, if you have a sense of what your Director’s shot list is when you’re, you know, a couple of shots away from completing a sequence, making sure your best boys know that you’re two shots away from moving to the next sequence, to the next set, or what have you, making sure your Seconds [Second Assistant Directors] and everybody knows to let the various people--I usually work through my ADs [Assistant Directors]. Work through the Second to make sure everybody knows, and so then the ADs can go on, make sure base camp knows, the Actors know, and things of that nature, but… And then always making sure somebody calls the production office.

INT: Special effects. Is anything both as a UPM and as a First [First Assistant Director], but primarily as a First, is there anything, is there anyway you, you yourself approach special effects, be it squibs, explosions, high falls, car crashes? I mean is, are there--

TJ: Well, you just begin with safety. Safety, safety, safety. And make sure that you start with, "Is it safe and how do we, what do we have to do to make it safe," and make sure the necessary precautions are taken. I think you wanna rehearse wherever possible or just go through the timing, talk it through, have a dry run, but just, really wanna be--make sure it’s safe. And if there’s stunt people involved, make that they’re adequately rehearsed and adequately prepared, and all the necessary padding and equipment is on site. [INT: What about budgeting and scheduling, budgeting and scheduling? ] Well, it depends on the stunt, depends on the activity. I get a sense from the stunt coordinator or whoever is doing the gag of what the requirements are, not just assuming that I know, to make sure that all those necessary things are taken care of. Make sure transportation knows to have a vehicle if you don’t have an ambulance on set. At least there’s a vehicle standing by that if there’s a mishap could be designated as the emergency vehicle to get them to the hospital. Just going through all those, all those steps to make sure it’s done. I think you kind of wanna, wanna rehearse it and go through it by the numbers. And again, don’t do it at the end of the day where you’re rushing, try to schedule those types of stunt activities early enough in the day where you have time to approach it with sanity and you’re not chasing the light, that you might do something rashly.

INT: How do you feel personally about, both in terms of safety, in terms of family life, in terms of whatever, about sometimes the obscene hours that we work? As a business, you know, do you think there should be finite hours of…?

TJ: I’m a firm believer in a 12-hour day, 12 hour, 12 and a half hour day. This little low budget show I was talking about, I was--the crew loved me. I pulled the plug after 12 and a half hours--12 hours and a half hour lunch. I just, “We'll come back tomorrow and finish.” We’re at the same location every day, and it wasn’t a matter of having to finish the set, having to finish a location or a company move. And I just said, “No. We’re not going to work more than that. We were fighting turn around on the talent anyway, so there’s really no point in working excessive hours ‘cause you’d just be waiting for the Actors the next day anyway, so I just, “No,” we pulled the plug, went home. [INT: Do you, do you have a problem--how do you deal with the Director on that? I mean in terms of, you know, the Director not having made his day, not having the budget to add a day to the days work--] Often times you’re out on a location and you have to finish the location. You can’t come back the next day. And you’re really stuck, you have to shoot, you have to shoot it out. I never break for a second meal. I’ll just get food, and let the crew eat while they work, ‘cause you don’t wanna take the time ‘cause that just extends you further in. It’s really not that cost effective. What you wanna do is get it done and get off the clock as soon as possible. But I have worked some brutally long days and ridiculously long days, but I would usually try to identify it early on, and if we can, can that shot be, can that location, can the sequence be moved to another location, can it be done another way, is there any other way to get out of having to work that excessive day? And if so, if you can look at the next day, is there a way that we can recoup it, and perhaps have a short day to kind of balance off this ridiculous day? But every now then you get trapped and you find yourself working two to three to four of those days in a row and it’s brutal on the crew.

INT: Now, as a Production Manager [UPM], have you ever had to really butt heads with the Director who says, “No,” you know, “I have a pace now,” you know, “the Actors are all prepped; we should do it right now.” I mean at what point do you balance your relationship with the Director with all the other concerns about going beyond the 12, 12 and a half hour days?

TJ: Well, if it’s--I have, if it’s not completing a location or finishing a location, and you’re coming back the next day, I have pulled the plug on a show from time to time, just because it’s the right thing to do, because we’re not gonna work those excessive hours and it doesn’t make sense. And I've generally before I’ve done it made sure the Producer was aware I was going to do it, and said, “I’m gonna hold the line; we’re just gonna pull the plug on this,” and we’ll do it. [INT: Do you get a, do you get a--do you have a practice of laying out the fact that unless there’s unusual circumstances, we’re gonna keep to a 12 hour day when you talk to a Director?] I absolutely want to make him aware of that. And I think they--if they have a problem with it, we should discuss it and air it out and talk about it. Now, if there’s a circumstance or a particular sequence, we’ll certainly accommodate it. I mean I’m not trying to be arbitrary about it, but I’m just thinking for the health, for the safety, for the betterment of the picture, that’s the best way to work. And occasionally, you’ll need a 14-hour day. I’m not saying that, you know, you’re not going to, but…

INT: Have you ever been involved in a film where there has been a serious accident, where someone has been seriously injured, seriously injured?

TJ: I had a--when I was at Warner Bros., we had a fatality on a show. But it wasn’t on the shooting company; it was on construction. But that was the--[INT: Condor?] It was two Condors--[INT: Oh, I remember that.]--going down a ramp, going down a ramp, and he was between the two Condors--[INT: Oh no, I remember another one.]--going down a ramp and one stopped, and he was crushed between the two. He should’ve been beside them, but that was… [INT: Is there anything you have to deal with something like that as a UPM? The First [First Assistant Director] would not be involved, but the UPM?] No, not that I’ve…I’m blessed that I never had a set--[INT: You have to call OSHA [Occupational Safety and Health Administration]?] Well, in the--I’ve never been in a situation on the set where I’ve had that done. We’ve had some injuries, and we had people had to go off to the hospital, but nothing life threatening or that bad.

INT: Now, switching on to a UPM, is there anything special as a UPM that you do the night before a day’s shooting?

TJ: Well, I think it’s--I generally try to get it done on the set during the day, so I’m not going to take it home at night. I can usually find a day to review the next couple of days and see what elements are necessary, and what needs to be done, and what needs to be brought up. And I’ll talk to the Production Coordinator: “Is this taken care of?” Talk to the department heads: “Is this taken care of?” Just kind of go, sorta go through a checklist to make sure all those elements are taken care of. Really nothing specific other than just--[INT: As a UPM, do you have a style of operation in terms of do you show up on a set at call; do you show up at the set at lunch; do you--is there--are you on set as you approach wrap, I mean is there any style…] As a matter of course, I always wanna be on the set first thing in the morning, just to--and I like to stay through the first shot. Once the camera’s rolling and the first shot is done, I’ll fade back to the office and make sure that--take care of the paper work, take care of the cost reports, whatever purchase orders--[INT: Now why is that? Why do you stay until the first shot?] Well, it gives me an opportunity to make sure that all the elements are there, the company is shooting, and things are working for the day. It also gives me an opportunity to relate to the, to be available to all the department heads in the event that they need to see me. And they pretty much all know that I’m there at call, so if they need to see me about getting permission to order something, or getting permission to do this or that, they know I’m on the set first thing in the morning. The Art Department knows I can be found there. The, you know, the set dressers know I can be found there first thing in the morning, so if there’s issues that come up with them, they know that’s where they can find me. Then once the company is shooting and off and you know the camera’s rolling and they’re off on their day’s work, I’ll then leave, go back to the office, and start taking care of the paper work in the office. [INT: Now, is there anything special about how you like to, who you communicate with, how you do communicate with the set, who do you communicate with on the set? Do you like to be notified every couple of hours of how the company’s doing or how they, I mean is there any special routine that you’re--] I’m very, very mindful of the ADs [Assistant Directors] and the stress and the pressure that they’re under all the time, but you know, at the same time when they complete a sequence, I like to be notified when they complete a sequence. And I generally do it per sequence, unless it’s some abnormally long thing. If it’s, if it’s filling at the, give me a call at lunch, get that lunch report when they’re at lunchtime. And usually mid afternoon, all things being ideal, I like to make an appearance back at set midafternoon just to see how things are going. And then hopefully by then dailies have arrived, and we get a chance to look at dailies at the end of the day. Go on from there.

INT: I’m gonna ask this in general. You know, during the course of the day or the beginning of the day, you know, how do you--do you or how do you interact with the Director, the Director’s team, or with the Actors as a UPM?]

TJ: As a UPM? Generally, I’ll--being there first thing in the day, I’ll make a point of saying good morning to the Director to make sure that he knows I’m there. If he has any comments or questions, he knows I’m there to be available. As a rule, I stay away, I don’t stay away, I don’t make a point of going out of my way to talk to the Actors. If I encounter them, I just, you know, greeting good morning, “How are you?” But I try not to engage them in conversation. I’m kind of a firm believer that the Director should really, the Director should be the one who talks to the Actors. And it’s their--not to chit chat with anybody else.

INT: Have you done much work in post-production?

TJ: Not a lot. Sometimes there’s post-production blue screen work or things of that nature. But if it doesn’t have to do with actual photography or miniature photography, monitoring something of that nature, as a rule, I haven’t been involved in post-production. [INT: And you, do you arrange, does the post-production department of a studio make deals with the post-production houses, or do you do that as a UPM?] There’s been sometimes I’ve done that as a UPM, but nine times out of 10, it’ll be handled by a post-production supervisor, or the Producer, or the studio. [INT: And how do you monitor the fact that--well, in many cases, be it equipment, be it equipment, or be it deals with various houses of vendors, caterers, whatever, how do you know what the market is? How do you main--keep in mind what the market is for all these services?] It’s kind of calling your contemporaries; seeing what they’re doing; checking with other people, checking with your contemporaries and see what’s happening. You usually you bid it out to several houses before you sign the bids, so you have a sense of what the going rates are. But it’s a matter of talking to other people and just communicating. [INT: In post-production or during wrap, do you have much, as a UPM, do you have much responsibility or involvement in the post-production process?] Not--I, quite frankly, I have not had a lot of work in post [post-production]. The one thing I wanna make sure that they do is have my, my first pass at end title credits. That’s kind of the one thing that production, I think, has an obligation to turn over to post-production. And then whatever they do with music or whatever is their business, but at least I’ll give them a first pass on my take from the business affairs contracts that I’ve seen on the Actors and on the crew, and the deals that I’ve made with regard to advertising and credit size and placement of credit. [INT: Anything else?] Well, just boxing up and letting everybody know where everything is for added shots and pick-ups, wherever the props and wardrobe is stored.

INT: What is the worst part of being an Assistant Director?

TJ: [Laughs] Probably the long hours and--what is the worst part? You know, it’s interesting. In being production, I’m not saying this is the worst part, I’m kind of--I’m just remembering that I was thinking about always being very professional. When you’re on the set production either as a Unit Production Manager or an Assistant Director, I think it’s important that you keep your focus one hundred percent on what’s happening at camera, on what’s hap--what the shot is, what the next shot is. And as for those reasons, I’m saying, when you’re not engaging yourself in conversation with other crewmembers or with the cast, and keeping things on a professional level, because I think your focus is really on what’s happening at camera. Now, getting back to your question of what is the least, least fun about being an AD [Assistant Director], I think it's getting stuck on impossible, unmakeable days, or working, working overtime, or--sometimes you find yourself in pretty harsh conditions, you know, night work, cold, all kinds of things. But, I don’t know, it’s always been a fun process to me. It’s always, it’s always been good. It’s part of fighting the battle and winning the war, so it’s good. [INT: What about being a UPM?] UPM, you see, you get caught in the middle a lot of times, ‘cause it’s, “Why is it costing so much?” There are some hidden agendas up there when dealing with the studios. Sometimes they have, they want things done for a pattern. Yet at the same point, they’re sending you scripts that they know can’t be done for a pattern, and whose fault is it when it doesn’t work? Well, it has to be somebody’s fault; must be yours. And you just have to kind of accept it and know that… And I think they really know at the end of the day that you're the guy taking the blame, but it’s not really your fault. But it can be put in some pretty awkward positions sometimes when you’re blamed for--[INT: As a production executive, have you ever put a UPM in that kind of bind?] No, not really, not really, not really. So I’ve been--hung out with the production Unit Manager. It’s been my fault too. [Laughs]

INT: What is the best piece of advice you can give to a novice AD [Assistant Director] and a novice UPM?

TJ: As long as you love what you’re doing, keep doing it, but… Best advice--just give it a hundred percent; don’t do it half way. If you’re going to do it, do it a hundred percent, don’t do it half way. And always keep the best interest of the picture in mind. I think you have to work for the picture. It’s--even though you’re working to do it as, if you’re hired by the studio to get it done as cheaply or as fast as possible, you’re still working for the picture. How do I make the best picture possible given the guidelines that I’ve been given to work with? I think you should always strive for excellence. And surround yourself with the best people possible. It’s worth it, I mean surrounding yourself with the best people possible. Yup, that would be my advice.

INT: Let’s see. Now we’re gonna talk about your Guild [DGA] involvement? [TJ: Uh oh.] Can you desc--first of all, why did you start coming to Guild meetings?

TJ: Well that’s easy. Wally Worsley [Wallace Worsley, Jr.], who is a mentor and Production Manager [UPM] I worked with years ago, sort of grabbed me by the arm and said, “You’re coming to the council meeting tonight, "and said, “you need to be there.” And brought me month after month for a couple of months and just told me it was my Guild; it was important that I be there; that I’d be a part of it. It--I owed it to the Guild. And I enjoyed participating; I enjoyed learning about the Guild. And after coming for a year, I was, you know, elected as an Alternate [AD/UPM Council West] the next year. And I think Wally probably had some lobbying on my behalf that allowed that to happen. And serving as an Alternate [AD/UPM Council West] for a year and then being eventually elected to the Council [AD/UPM Council West]. I’ve just been on the Council [AD/UPM Council West] ever since, feeling it’s an obligation that I have to the Guild, an opportunity to learn and to keep informed on the current issues that are confronting the Guild, and just to be part of it. And I’ve just always been there. Ever since I first joined the Guild, I’ve been coming. [INT: Who are some of the notable Assistant Directors and Production Managers who were sitting around the--] Oh gosh, wow. Emmett Emerson, Chico Day [Francisco Day], gosh--[INT: Wally, Abby.] Yeah, Wally, certainly. Abby Singer. [INT: Lin Ephraim [Lionel A. Ephraim].] Yeah, Lin Ephraim, yeah. There’s been a remarkable group of people that have come and participated. [INT: A lot of--] Peter Bogart for years. Jerry Ziesmer for years, was around the Guild. And it’s been interesting to watch from when it was held in the building across the street in the old Guild building, around the big conference table. And all the smokers were at one end and then they finally threw the smokers out all together. And nobody smoked in the Council [AD/UPM Council West] meetings. [Laughs]

INT: Do you recall who were some of the Directors who were serving on the National Board at the time?

TJ: Well, I remember participating--I was on the negotiating committee the year that I think you were probably there as well--you’ve been on most of them for the past several years--when Robert Aldrich negotiated across the table from Lew Wasserman. It was just wonderful to sit in the room and watch--[INT: That was before me. I think, I think I was still a...yeah.]--Oh, was that before you? That was, that was a wonderful, wonderful debate to witness and be party of. About a--[INT: I was really, again, you know, going back to six hours ago when we talked about it, the fact that it was a much different industry, you know, 25, 30 years ago, where Lew Wasserman would actually come down to a union negotiation.] Right. [INT: I can’t imagine Sumner Redstone or Lew, or Michael Eisner or--] The industry has changed. It’s a--and at my level of understanding of studio operations, which I’m sure is pretty basic, but it seems as though the industry has become very bottom line oriented for the stock: “What do we have to do to make the stock perform well?” It’s not about, it’s not motivated about, “What do we do to make great pictures?” It’s, “What can we do to make profit for the corporation?” And I think that’s, that’s, in my opinion, has negatively impacted the film industry. It seems as though the major studios are always chasing last year's hit. There’s nobody with a firm vision trying to be out there, new and creative. Those people are found in the independent world, and they’re captured and co-opted into the, into the, into the studio system.

INT: Which Guild [DGA] issue has been the most important for you and most meaningful for you?

TJ: Wow, which Guild issue? Well, now I'm very grateful for the pension, health, and welfare plan. [Laughs] [INT: Amen to that.] And that’s a Guild issue I spent a lot of gratitude with. But I think runaway production is a serious issue. A lot of our production has left, left California and gone to other places. And it’s, I think, created a real employment issue for our members, and I don’t quite know the answer to bringing it back, because we’re finding film crews, film bases throughout the United States now, where you can go into many different cities in this country, and for the large part, staff a motion picture. And it’s unfortunately not the number of ADs [Assistant Directors] and Production Managers [UPM] working on those projects that you’d like to see.

INT: Has the Guild [DGA] ever come in to fight on some specific issue for you, some grievance or some problem that you had that you called the Guild--

TJ: I think the Guild made some phone calls on a project that I was going to be a UPM/Line Producer on that fell through. And I quite frankly forgotten the details on it, it was so long ago. But I know I was involved in a project that they got involved in, and were able to see that I was--received the compensation that I was due.