INT: Hello my name is Barbara Roche, today is April 14, 2009. We are conducting an interview with Francesca Bellini De Simone for the DGA Visual History Program. Today we are at the DGA in Los Angeles, California.

FB: Hi, my name is Francesca Bellini De Simone, everyone calls me Fran. I was born November 6, 1936 in Jaden Pennsylvania.

INT: So Fran, can you tell us a little bit about your growing up years? Some of us nowadays have TV and Internet but when you were little they didn’t have a few of the things. Can you tell us some of the influences on your life growing up?
FB: Well we didn’t have a television set, we had a radio. I think what influenced me to get into business was my mother was very smart and gave my sister singing lessons, and I got dancing and piano. To amuse myself, rather than being a couch potato, I played piano or went to dancing class. I guess I always wanted to be in show business in some way or another. Probably Debbie Reynolds, I saw a lot of her movies when I was young. I thought I can sing and dance like that why can't I be Debbie Reynolds? As we all fantasized. I kind of got half way there. I ended up a dancer. My first movie was CAROUSEL, I had five interviews for that. I didn't get seen by Rod Alexander and Bambi [Bambi Linn] until the fifth one. But I learned the dance steps so by the time I worked my way up I knew it and they said, "She is great," and they hired me. I then went on and did more dance jobs. I was going to fly to New York and act. I had a chance to do a play but I got THE EDSEL SHOW with Bing Crosby and Bob Hope. That was much better. I never got to New York, never got into theater. I ended up doing TV and movies here. Dancing on television was the first time I got close to anything of that sort.

INT: Getting back to television then, you didn’t grow up with TV, when did it come into your life?
FB: As a professional, working in television. I was a dancer. But I was fascinated by what everybody behind the camera was doing. I used to watch PAs changing scripts, it was a whole little world you didn't know anything about. All you knew was your dancing and costumes. Your whole area. There was this other area that looked interesting. I will jump ahead and say when I close the Hollywood palace and there was no more dance work in 1970, I ran into Rita Scott who was a producer in the PALACE [THE HOLLYWOOD PALACE]. She said, "Can you type, are you working?" I said, "No and yes." She says, "I got a job, show up tomorrow at Young Street Productions." I became a secretary to Bill Harbach [William O. Harbach] and Nick Vanoff. And then graduate into a second PA, and started that whole thing that to me had been so fascinating. I learned about the production end of it.

INT: When you work as a PA, this was a PA in television as opposed to film where you might just be running errands. As a PA, what did you do? What was your day like and how did it relate to what you went on to do?
FB: It's like stage managing; every show is different. The same kind of, the show dictates your duties. There I typed scripts, and typed a lot of personal things for the producers. I did contracts. You did a little bit of everything because there was a first PA. I'm jumping ahead but on ALL IN THE FAMILY I was John Rich's secretary. I helped with casting, I was secretary in the office and I was second PA on that. And my main thing was taking all the changes. Every day Carroll O'Connor would change everything. I would type them up, Xerox, and distribute to everybody contracts through the casting lady. You did a bit of everything. Went into editing. It depends what their requirements are. When I was dancing on the Dean Martin show, I'm just dropping all these names. Ted Baker who had been a dancer in New York, we had a camaraderie, he was an old gypsy. He was Dean's wardrobe man. He then, I can't remember before or after, but he got into stage managing. I remember watching him and thinking he is having so much fun, why can't I do that. Then after, well I can progress, I went into compliance and practices, I needed a job. I was doing THE PRICE IS RIGHT at CBS as a person where you time the commercials. Tell them what products they can use, appraise diamond rings, you were the policemen of the network. There was a woman stage manager at THE PRICE IS RIGHT. I said, "Well, Teddy is having fun over there, she can do it over there, that's another reason I can do it." I had never seen a woman. I went back to Norman Lear after I left compliance and practices. I thought maybe he can help me out, he was so nice on ALL IN THE FAMILY. I said "Norman, how can I get to be a stage manager." I looked it up, you need six weeks definite employment, he says "We are moving the show from CBS where Jim Rice was stage manager over to KTLA and I have no manager." He had one, he said "You can be the second, I will give you six week confirmation." I called up NBC and said, "I left compliance and practices. I know all your shows through that end of it, so if you need a stage manager give me a shot." I did all the shows just in another area. After the six weeks were up with Norman, I got a call from CBS, a couple from NBC, and they came to me and said, "Do you want to go on staff?" Freelance made more money but I had been a gypsy for so many years I said yes I will go on staff. I will take the pay cut I want a steady job. I told Norman I was going to do that, he wished me luck, and thirty-three years later I am starting my 34th year at NBC. And they said I would never last. I was the first woman and I think I'm right in saying the only woman who has ever been on staff in NBC. There aren't any more because in 1991 they bought us all out and said everybody go freelance. INT: I think you're right, I think in New York I don’t know that there was a woman there either. I think Pat Burley at CBS was probably who you watched. Not only were you pioneers as women, but also the way TV has changed through the years, you have really seen it all.

INT: So Fran, you started in music, had your background there, went into other areas of production and got your break in the sitcom world with Norman Lear. How different was that for you, working in sitcoms with words as opposed to music and stages?
FB: To me it was fascinating. I love to read. As a matter of fact, at one point when I was out of work before compliances and practices I got a job as Alan Alda's secretary. He was doing a new pilot so we needed somebody who could type his script. I loved to type, I can take shorthand, I would type away and then slow down. He would come out to the door and say its not working is it. I would say no I cant type it. He could tell by my rhythm if it was flowing. And if I started to stop he knew it wasn't written properly. We had a great time for a month or two. going into the sitcom genre as a stage manager was fun for me. Even as a second PA I loved retyping it. In those days you did everything in a seven carbon situation. You didn't have Xeroxes. If you made a mistake you had to clean up seven carbons. These kids now a days with computers and the Xeroxes, they don't know how easy they have it. It wasn't fun. But eventually, after going on staff at NBC, and of course as a staff person they put you on everything. They started me at three days a week on the soap. You would do a variety, a special, they put me on a series. MAMA MALONE I think it was. I hated it. After doing various other things and working so fast and furious on a soap or variety, now I am in a sitcom like ALL IN THE FAMILY except I'm in a different position. It takes a week to do one little show. They refine it, tweak it. It takes a week to do what we do in eight hours now a days. I was so bored. What a terrible thing to say. I like to work quickly, probably why I am still there. My mind races, I race. That's the way I like to do it. I sometimes talk to the extras and they will look at me like I'm speaking Chinese because they can't keep up. I have to slow don't and say, "When she does this you cross here" and really lay it out otherwise they can't keep up. But that's me.

INT: So Fran you performed in live television, you didn't grow up watching TV, a lot of TV was live, or a little delayed, not necessarily recorded. Could you tell us about how different it is to work in live manner versus recorded?
FB: I was going to tell you about how the soap started. [INT: Tell us about the soap, I don't know that they were recorded the way they are now?] It wasn't it was totally different. There were two cameras, one boom. You brought everybody on stage, they went to their sets, and they waited. You went from set to set with a commercial break, which is when you moved to the next set. Just like when it was live. Now you have to call the people out, we start and stop, it's almost a baby movie.

INT: So Fran, you started in soaps quite a while ago. They are a little different now than when you started, could you tell us about it in those early years?
FB: Yes, you brought everyone out on stage, you put them in their sets. There were two cameras and one boom, now there are three cameras, sometimes four. And they shot it like it was live. You would do the first act, commercial break goes to the next set. Now were do bits and pieces, I don't think I have seen a complete show in 20 years. We do two or three shows in one set, the show is now done in the editing room. We also now ISO the cameras. We never did it before. If they missed a shot they would redo it. Now we don't because they have it on ISO or they have something they can cut to. As the years progressed we would do a hundred and twenty pages in twelve to 24 hours. However long it took. We went on location, money was no object. We were number one or two, went down to the marina, Big Bear, New Orleans. It was quite the thing. Now we are in much smaller sets. We do a hundred to thirty pages in 8 hours or less. It's all about money, hurry, fast. We used to have everyone come in at six o' clock in the morning. We would do a dry block, camera block, go to lunch, have a dress rehearsal. Have notes, and then tape the show. Everybody was there the whole day until they finished. Now a days you have a walk through, kind of dry block with cameras from 8 to 9, tape till 12. One stage manager has a half hour, while the other does dry block, then you switch. Block and tape all day long. It's totally different.

INT: We've gone from two extremes, an almost completely live situation to a streamlined and economical one. In between, over thirty some years, I'm sure there are other permutations of how they shoot the day time dramas, were there any other formats which you as stage manager observed that also affected how you worked, between the live roll of the camera to what they're doing now?
FB: I can't even say that. To digress a little bit, after I had been there a couple years, I screamed and ranted and raved, they finally let me do sports. I got to go on the weekends, my one day off was Wednesday. And I would go and do THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL. They called me over for a big show. They said come back and I would come back every Wednesday. Over there, at that time, which would have been I guess in the '80s, maybe the '90s, I don't remember, they allowed me to be more of a stage manager than they did at DAYS OF OUR LIVES. When I first started at BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL, we didn't get marked scripts. We got a blank script. We had no camera shots. We didn't know what was going on. The directors at the time didn't want us to know. Strange. Finally a producer came over and said on shot four pick up I said I don't know what shot number four is. He said you don't have a marked script, I said we never had one. So he said give them marked scripts. From then on it changed. It was like BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL. I could follow what was going on. And do my extra work even better because I knew where the cameras would be. Otherwise you watch and hope you remember it because nothing was written down. That was something that changed. But basically its always been the same except now its speeded up. There is only one way to shoot a soap.

INT: From a craft stand point, when you work in the early days at NBC, you were more of a manager, then it got a little more creative once they plugged you into the camera moves. By then, more of the industry was working that way, the stage manager was more creative on the directors team?
FB: Well here is another thing. The Emmys, for years, focused on night time. I would be nominated for an Emmy, but never in daytime because the stage manager was not considered an art. Finally, I forget who suggested it. I think it was Randy Robbins who had been on Y AND R [THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS], and he said, "Go up and tell them that you should be on the directors' team." I went and gave a speech. I said, "I was nominated at night, doing the same work at daytime for 19 years, why aren't I a part of the team. You can't do that show without me on the floor." I remember running into a director who said, "You get paid extra for working with extras because that's directing work right?" I said, "No, I don't get paid extra." I'm supposed to direct the extras. I went through this whole thing, they took a vote, talked to all sorts of directors, they came to a decision, and now we have a new producer Gary Tomlin who stands on the floor with you and utilizes me as a conduit to the booth, but half the time they punch the essay and go over your head. He utilizes us, he listens to us, makes suggestions. It's like a whole new world for me. Even though I am fast and running like a maniac, I feel like I'm even more involved because he allows me to do my job. And more creativity. I'm not just counting down and cueing them. It's interesting. Then you go on sports and that's a whole another thing I can tell you about if you are interested.

INT: We definitely are, I'd like to read this, but sticking with the craft on something dramatic like a soap and it has similarities to sitcoms, with the background actors how much of an influence have you had over the years not just on the look of movement but on who was hired? Props used, back stories in the background, could you explain what you do as a stage manager when you are dealing with background?
FB: When I first started out I would make up stories and tell kids now you see that girl over there and you want to meet her and take her up. I give them reasons to make their moves. I had the time to do it. We had three rehearsals. What happened half the time is they would be great in dress and by the time we got to air they would forget everything. You could like you say take your purse over, take your phone out, give them things to do with props or without. Never put anyone in dark clothes where it's not properly lit, they will fade away. You lose them, might as well not hire the me. Speaking of hiring, we never have anything to say about that. That comes through casting, if they are not up to snuff I can say to the department "I really think we can talk to this person," or "they need a vacation" is how I say it. But, that happens very rarely. Everybody usually wants to work. The one thing I noticed is for some reason we have a mall scene, restaurant or whatever, they never bring in little old ladies or men or children, it's always everyone looks alike. They are young and cute, that's not life, but that's what they want to see on the screen. I have no input in who was hired. If there is a dance situation I try to put together people who want to dance. Who look decent doing it. Of course you don't hear music, so you need people who can keep a beat.

INT: Let's stick for a moment, you have dance and music backgrounds, worked in the genre when the budgets were bigger, as a stage manager, were there times when perhaps they didn’t hire a choreographer and as part of your background direction could you talk about how you worked with dancers on large scenes?
FB: Well usually they'd hire a choreographer. What I did I would work with the actors on my own. I would go and watch the rehearsal and see if they were having trouble with anything. I remember one time Drake [Drake Hogestyn] had to dip with Deidre [Deidre Hall] and she couldn't do it. I said, "I will do it," she watched. I didn't like to step on anyone's toes. I had to be careful if there was a choreographer. As time went on they would say, "Franny watch rehearsal and tell me if you see anything that would look better." I knew how everybody moved. Most of them didn't move that well. That was kind of fun. I don't know, that's about it. Like I say, we work so fast you don't have time anymore. Even in the old days you really don't have that much time. The props, if you have elevator cues, you get the grips set up, lighting comes and goes, make sure everyone is ready, you have to prompt all the time. There are so many thing you are dealing with, you are busy all the time. Nowadays you don't really have the time and even then if you did you helped as much as you could. It's always just getting it going. That's our job, keep it moving.

INT: In the job, you had schedules to attend to, individual schedules, I'm wondering if you could walk us through a day or through sections of the day and got through the myriad of things that you do. You walk in, you have a script, what do you do first at the beginning of the day, the approach to the script and the days work?
FB: As part of it, I have taken on the job of setting up the dressing rooms. You have to make sure everybody is in the right dressing room, the right door is unlocked. That type of thing. Then you take the script, you mark it, they have a run down of how we are doing things. So I go through, I use to switch my script around so I go in the order of the rundown. Now scripts are so big, I leave it the way it is. I mark the different shows I am doing, sometimes five shows a day. Then you mark stand-by cues, when you are calling people. Who is in what scene. Some directors give you a list of props. Others you have to figure out the doctor-type writing. Now we have a marked script you see everything the director will do, you familiarize yourself with what he wants. Then you get the kids out for the first dry block. When I get there at 6:30 I make sure that everyone is going into makeup, wardrobe and hair. That way there's no pile-up. Then you do dry block. Then there are two stage managers. One is on stage the other is calling people out. Then we start the show. We don't slate anymore. Did you know that? They figured that saved thirty seconds. We don't hold up a slate anymore. I keep going out feeling like I am missing something. We just roll tape. Whoever is outside keeps track of what's going on and calls the people so that we move right. Nobody waits for an actor. Extras as well, now a days the extras come out, watch the dry block, we give them their starting positions, then I throw them in it. "This is what's happening, when he enters you cross behind. When the camera shoots this way I want a cross there. Don't go upstage, don't cross in front of the camera." Now you are off and running. We do that all day long until lunch. Then we do dry block for afternoon. Hopefully out before five.

INT: While you are doing all of that, this was just talking about the background people?
FB: Well everybody else coming out of makeup. [INT: Along with the background can you tell us about the other things you are doing on stage, in some of the areas I am thinking about, special effects and safety, being on book, if you would like to address all the other things too.] I forgot all of that. If we do have special effects you have to make sure John has it all set up. If a door has to break you make sure nobody uses it before you get to it. If there is fire, the guys are really good, fire in the hole if there is a gunshot, fire bars you have to be aware of. If you are not needed in the set or area you move away. A few years ago we had jaguars and we had lions, all sorts of tarantulas and things. You always watch where they will be. And like you say, while the scene is shooting you are on book. If they stop down because the kid doesn't know his lines we start again. Go back to shot three, or I say, "He missed the line on shot seven." You have to follow the shots and dialogue much more closely now. The way he wants it, he wants to know if anything doesn't work out. He doesn't hear it as well as I do sometimes. If you stop down for any reason you have to know exactly where you are so you can pick up. Give the actors the place we are going back too, make sure they understand the dialogue they will come back with, make sure they understand where they are and do all this as quickly as possible. If he doesn't like the lighting they will stop and change the lighting quickly.

INT: If you would like to tell us, these scenes run usually a couple of minutes, you told us some of the things you are doing simultaneously, there are probably a few more such as continuity issues, actor issues?
FB: Continuity is my bugaboo. When Kristian Alfonso did three different characters I took it upon myself to do the continuity. We had no script supervisor. The ADs in the booth, we'll see the directors can't follow continuity, they jump around from show to show. The ADs try to follow continuity. And wardrobe and props is supposed to follow. There is always a slip here and there. With her doing three characters I took it upon myself. It was a mess. I went to the producers and said, "I would like to be a continuity-type person if you could create a job like that." He didn't want to do that, he said it was up to every area. So now a days, every area is watching like crazy. Wardrobe is taking many more pictures, writing copious notes. We are so out of synch. We will do things after the fact, he comes in with a gash but we haven't had a fight yet. You try to remember where everything was yesterday, where everything will be down the line, you start a scene and say we haven't done the fight yet, was the lamp over, suitcase open, picture torn? Usually nowadays because they can roll the tape back quickly they will check the tape as well as listen to us. I would say 80% of the time I'm right. A couple of times you can't remember everything. To your other question, when we stop down the first thing I say is technical or we have to redo a line. But you try to be as nice as possible so they don't get nuts or crazy, and they can't remember anything. Usually it's technical. Somebody has missed a shot or lighting wasn't right. Bumpy floor, whatever. But yes you are right. You are bringing up things I take for granted, I don't even know that I'm doing it.

INT: On the thing you don’t know that you are doing, there are a lot of aspects to television production, specific to a stage manager. For example while one has a monitor on the set you can't be watching it all the time. Do you in your mind, are you aware of where the cameras are so that you can imagine it, so that you can block the background, if you can talk to us a little bit about what's going through your mind while you are dealing with extras, actors, special effects, continuity, What other things you are aware of and what you are hearing at the time?
FB: That's why I'm slightly nuts, because you are hearing the booth, the actors questioning you, the extras going "Huh?" the props saying "Now or the next scene, is there a cue?" There are 87 things going on. What I like to do now is when they come out and do the first rehearsal for cameras, I put the extras around but I don't move them. I watch how it is being shot. In that quick minute where they are fixing make up and hair and they are getting settled in, I'm sure the props are all set, then I give the extras their moves. They better remember it because they only have ten seconds and its fast. I just told them it so they do it. That's how I do it, others will set it up and do it during the first rehearsal. There is a lot isn't there.

INT: With time pressures they have now, even more than in the past, and you always want to remain calm and cool and collected, you have people waiting for answers, could you explain what it is like when you are hearing what you are hearing in your ear, you keep a certain demeanor on the set, and you don't want to throw the actors?
FB: Oh there is so many times I like to jump up and down screaming and ranting, but you can't. You have to be a calm influence. Especially when an extra walks into a wall. I'm sure my face goes nuts, but I say I think the next time go the other way. And then you try, then you go off into the ladies room and scream. But you have to, the actors call me mother a lot. I guess they know when I am out there, I am watching out for them. I'm aware of how they will look, especially we were talking earlier about if they are doing love scenes or they are kind of naked, they always say Franny watch no wrinkles, get the right angle. There are certain things I do that I know other people don't. I was aware of that. I had been an actress and a dancer. I want to look good so I know they want to look good. Everything is fine, I am watching, or I say we have to do it again. Try to do it as nicely and calmly as possible so they don't get nuts. Whenever Joseph Mascolo - he is a big Italian - "Oh what's the matter?" "It's nothing Joe, it has nothing to do with you." "Have another drink. We are doing it again." You are right. You have to keep an even keel. You can't go nuts like you like to sometimes. On top of everything else, on top of watching, listening, following the shots, waiting to hear if Gary [Gary Tomlin] says something about doing it over, there is a lot to do at all times. Plus you are dealing with the egos of these wonderful actors in front of you and a bunch of extras who have never been in there and don't know they are in a cafe and should be working on computers and on their phones and being natural. This is an interesting job I have isn't it.

INT: In many ways, you are sort of the sender of the wheel, and sticking with the genre of soaps, you have directors who rotate in. Occasionally producer and personnel change above and below, yet in the continuity of time you are a constant. Could you discuss a little bit what it is like for your relationship both with the different director types, how that affects the way you work with actors, how you keep people comfortable, as well as who you function day to day with the different personalities on the set and in the booth?
FB: You are putting me right on the spot here, that's a good question. It is a juggling game. We have directors who come in, one is chipper and funny, and almost overboard. You just laugh all day long and have a good time. We have another who is pleasant and a speed demon. His favorite line is "if you are not counting backwards from five you are too late." But he is charming. We have another director who is very business like but very pleasant and gentlemanly. We have another older director who is also gentlemanly and it's like old-school time.

INT: When you work on these daytime dramas with a variety of producers and directors, it would appear you are closer to actors physically because the directors are in another place. How do you deal with the actors and the directors and producers when it comes to giving notes that might involve performance?
FB: That's a good one, they don't want us to do that. They feel it would be better received and more appreciated and taken if it comes from the director or producer. However, on occasion, depending on what the note is, they will say, "Franny go up and say this." They don't want to blast it over the loud speaker. If it's something better said in confidence, especially to a woman, I think a lot of times whether they will admit or not they are glad I am a woman, because I can say things and do things that a man can't get away with in certain instances. But, were we getting back to that director thing? This particular director is very good with the actors but he is so specific he drives me crazy. The changing things, "I didn't like that angle, move it this way." Enough already. But you get through the day, fight your way through it, and you are happy the next day because the joking one comes in. The director sets the tone for the day, the fast director means we are out early, you have to remember that. You are setting the tone for the whole day's work. As a stage manager who was the next two levels down, the associate director has more to do with the floor, I didn't want to be in the booth I wanted to be around the people. You have to try to keep an even keel regardless of what the director is doing that day. Even the fun and good directors have bad days, but you are not allowed a bad day. One day I had a little allergy with my eyes, I was tearing up and a couple people came by and said what's wrong. They got so upset. I thought interesting how they react to how I am acting. I try to always have a smile, and be kind of happy. Keep a nice feeling on he set. That is our main job, keep everyone happy, have a good days work, and see you around. That's the thing.

INT: When you are working, unlike in film and some other medium, the way that you needed to communicate as a stage manager is a headset that you wear all the time. I'm sure you are hearing quite a bit, that can affect the way you have a happy demeanor. Can you give us an example of hearing a lot of input on the head, a lot on the floor, and dealing with that at the same time as performing your craft in a limited time and keeping everyone calm?
FB: As I said earlier that's why I am slightly nuts. You have to learn to listen to three things at once. I can hear people in the back of the book as well as you talking to me, you have to say first this one then this one. I guess I never thought of it, but it's kind of maybe being really organized mentally and physically. You have to decide what is the most important thing, what should I deal with first. You think what will take the most time to fix or to change and do. I will do that first. You have your priorities, talk to actor or however it works out. It is like a chess game in your head as well as a juggling game on the floor as to how you get everyone's answer without wasting anytime. It all comes down to time.