INT: Friday, Nov 30, at the DGA. Del let me double back toward GUILD matters and jump to '53 when you applied for membership for the SCREEN DIRECTORS GUILD. How come?
DM: PADDY, who wrote the original version of MARTY had sold it to HECHT and LANCASTER with grave reservations. He had a bad experience with this many years before and said never again. So when he sold the script of MARTY he insisted on maintaining as much control as possible. This meant co-producing and co-directing and being on the set. This was my first film, didn't bother me. We had done a lot of TV together. When we announced that we were going to co-direct that was fine with me. We both applied and paid initiation fees to the guild. With our miniscule salaries, it took a large portion of our salary to pay this fee. After the first 3 or 4 days of rehearsal PADDY and I found we were working as we always worked, on live TV shows. He never spoke to the actors, just to me. He said, I'm not directing at all, why am I paying this money for the director's guild? So I became the sole director. [INT: That was a positive situation then, as compared to later conflicts between writers and directors. You did seven of PADDY's shows. But you had not met GEORGE SIDNEY?] No, I had not met him. This is probably the first time I met JOE YOUNGERMAN. I didn't know anybody in the guild to sign my application. [INT: Do you remember film directors at the time who might have been in your mind?] People who later were members of the board, I did not know any of them, but people like JOHN FORD, WILLIAM WYLER, FRED ZIMMERMAN, JOSEF VON STERNBERG, KING VIDOR, FRANK CAPRA. One of the advantages was getting to know these people. KING VIDOR was the first president of the guild. [INT: In '56 there's a great quote from JOE YOUNGERMAN suggesting you should come to LA for the dinner and ceremony.] It so happened that I was in LA at that time. I had no real awareness of the guild dinner or award, I did know I had been nominated. So I had not a clue that we had a chance at an award. I was not planning to come to the dinner. JOE contacted me and suggested that I really ought to be there. I was the most stunned person in the world when I was announced as the winner, I couldn't believe it. It was a stunning event.

INT: Del, years later you were a member of the board. How so soon?
DM: It happened because in 1959 Paddy and I were doing our last picture together in New York with FREDRIC MARCH and KIM NOVAK. We were filming in New York, we were about halfway through the filming and the New York SCREEN DIRECTORS GUILD sent me a letter saying I had to join. If I didn't join they said they would picket me and shut down my production. I said no, I'm not going to join. We moved to the FOX STUDIOS in Manhattan and the day we arrived there was a big mob of people outside who were setting up a picket line. I started to cross through the line and somebody grabbed me. I walked through the picket lines. Meanwhile I had called JOE YOUNGERMAN back in California to tell him what was happening. He said you're perfect, just continue doing what you're doing right now. And for several days the picket line was in front of the studios and everybody walked right through it. Finally the picketing folded and I never joined that group, but I was terribly incensed by that attitude of trying to force me to join their organization.

INT: Did your contacts with JOE precipitate you becoming a board member?
DM: Yes, I got to know him and GEORGE SIDNEY. I found out later they appreciated my attitude and I'm sure that's what brought me to their attention. [INT: Who were some of the men and what were some of the issues at that time?] The men were those I had mentioned before. The issues were not really focused, there were just a great many things that the GUILD was interested in on behalf of its members. There was talk of amalgamating the various unions. That was the first of the New York groups that joined with the GUILD. This is what caused the name change from the SCREEN DIRECTORS GUILD to the DIRECTORS GUILD OF AMERICA. [INT: Yes, that happened in '60.] Of course I knew a lot of the New York members, even though I had never been a member. [INT: Did you work closely with FRANK CAPRA?] I think reasonably so. I was quite green and very new to all of the personalities and to the issues, so for a long time I just sat quietly and listened. [INT: The pension plan was also formed at that time, and the health and welfare.] I think my memory is fairly accurate on that. There was a great dispute with the producer's association about the pre-1948 films. The Directors Guild wanted residuals paid for. My memory was that it was JOE YOUNGERMAN who came up with the final plan. He established these plans as a result of waiving the pre-1948 residuals. He came up with the plan to establish a pension plan and the health and welfare plan. Two of the most important things that happened during my time on the board.

INT: How did that first term in the Vice Presidency go in 1963 under GEORGE SYDNEY? Tell us about that?
DM: My memory is rather vague. I think that there was a general feeling because I came from New York that I was more closely allied to the New York members than any other member out here might be. Because they were all from film. In the amalgamation of the RADIO AND TELEVISION DIRECTORS GUILD and the SCREEN DIRECTORS GUILD, there were many rough spots, a lot of areas of distrust, of each side feeling used by the other, trying to defend their own territory. There were a lot of divisive issues floating around and since I came from New York, they chose me to become an officer. [INT: The New York AD's became a part of the guild at that time?] Yes. [INT: Is it fair to say you were the link between the coasts?] No. [INT: In the next year in '64 the UPM's became members?] I don't really remember the details, but in years past they had been members, then departed. They wanted to come back and I think FRANK CAPRA was instrumental in getting them back in.

INT: In that year, I think creative rights came to life. Do you remember that?
DM: I don't remember that specifically. I don't remember who it was that sort of led the way. It was an area of many sore spots for the directors and things that we felt were being put upon and things that we as directors should have the right to certain things. So it was an emotionally stirring episode, but I don't have any real specific memories of arguments or discussions leading to that. [INT: The AD training program?] Yes, like creative rights. The entrance to the guild membership was not very strict. I believe it was GEORGE SIDNEY more than anyone else who led the way in establishing that. Then New York and Hollywood members could be brought into the guild in a manner that was equitable to both sides. A lot of the NY members belonged to the networks and their training programs sort of came about through the network's training them on the job. So there were many differences between the two coasts when the training programs were set up.

INT: In '65 another picket line and incidents of sort when you were directing MISTER BUDDWING.
DM: Well MISTER BUDDWING was an MGM picture, very strangely cast, as 3 women were cast to play the same woman at different stages of her life. It was the story of a man who lost his memory and woke up in Central Park one morning. He spends the picture searching for people to ID him. We had shot exteriors in LA before leaving with MGM crews. We had to pick up a supplemental New York crew once we got there. Immediately there was a growing amount of friction between the New York and California crews. The California crews were really the men in charge. That offended the New York crews. Friction built, openly. It was the worst situation of that kind and became very disruptive to the picture. The New York crew sullenly went on strike. Often on lunch hour they would get drunk. Sullen, argumentative, would not take orders from California crew. There may have been insensitivity toward the New Yorkers from the California crew. The situation became openly rebellious and we had a final night's shooting underneath the Brooklyn bridge in a tenement housing district. Under the best of circumstances a difficult place to work. We sent some of the crew early in the day to set up for the night shoot and by the time we got down there nothing had been done. They had gone on strike. They wanted to be paid that day with cash and wouldn't do anything until that happened. The people in the neighborhood were flooding the place, in the way. The police couldn't handle the crowd, and it became an ugly scene. A New York grip came up to ERICH VON STROHEIM and tried to hit him. I tried to block it and then I said to hell with this and we wrapped everything. We cancelled the shooting for the night. I got in the limo to go to the hotel and was practically hysterical by the time we got back, drunk as a lord. I felt betrayed by my own group. I took it personally. I told our publicity man to set up a press conference the next morning. I knew I was going to lay out my side of the dispute. I said I'd never come back to New York to shoot a foot of film again until this was resolved. A lot of other directors sided with me. We went back to California and all of the MGM crew heads wrote their version from beginning to end of what happened. The New York Film Commission was formed as a result of that I think.

INT: The New York directors joined the DGA at that point, I think. Do you remember that?
DM: I think it was just after that, possibly, that they joined. But yes, they had been working to either gain jurisdiction or to get recognition from the SCREEN DIRECTORS GUILD or the DGA, and they had achieved that. They found a compromise.