INT: Why don’t you just quickly run down, summarize many of the committees and councils and the boards, and the boards of trustees that you’ve served on, that you serve on now and that you’ve served on over the past 30 years.

TJ: Wow. Well, I’m presently on the board of trustees of the DGA Training Program, the Producer Training Program and I have been since 1990, so I guess that's 16 years on the--[INT: You’re also on the Tr--] On the Training Program. The Training Program. [INT: But you’re also the chairman, aren’t you?] Well, I was. We just, last night we had our new--I was Chair of the Board until last night. We elected the new year's. Ed Milkovich is the Chair for the next year. But I’m also on the Board of Trustees of the DGA [Directors Guild of America] Pension and Health Plan, so those are two trusteeships I’m presently on. But I’ve been active on the AD/UPM Council [Western AD/UPM Council] basically since I’ve joined the Guild [DGA]. And I’ve been a Board Member for, of the National Board, I was an Alternate for several years, and then I was an Associate Board member for several years. And I think I left the Board in 2003, I believe. But, then on committees, I was on the Mentor Committee, I’ve been on the AD/UPM Committee, a bunch of other committees that I think are just too numerous to name them. And the Negotiating Committee a couple of times. Runaway Production Committee. The Strike Committee when we were in labor negotiations.

INT: Other than Wally Worsley [Wallace Worsley, Jr.] twisting your arm and dragging you here or threatening you, could you enu--elaborate on why you, why you are so active? I mean you are a very successful, you’re a very successful Production Executive, UPM, First AD [First Assistant Director], you’re very, you have a family, but yet you find time to be active at the Guild [DGA].

TJ: It’s--for me, it’s an opportunity to give back. I think I have an obligation. The Guild has given me so much in my life and it’s just an opportunity to give back, to be of service to the Guild. And it’s rewarding in the activities that I, that I do. It keeps me current. I enjoy doing what I do. I’m learning about it. I’m kind of wondering about stepping down from the Council [Western AD/UPM Council] now just to bring in, to make sure there’re seats for new people coming in, for young blood coming in. I don’t want to be the old fogey on the Board. I think it’s, I think it’s important the Council represent working ADs [Assistant Directors]. And since I’ve taken my retirement, perhaps it’s time for me to step aside. So I'll have to have to restrict my activities to the Administrative Committee and committee work.

INT: Could you describe any Guild [DGA] related events, celebrations, or meetings that have been particularly meaningful or important to you?

TJ: I think--well, I think the new member orientation is a very important meeting. It’s, I’ve been present at a couple of them, but it’s a wonderful indoctrination to the new members coming in, letting them know what’s available and what the Guild can do for them. But that’s--I’m trying to think of other special projects: the screenings, well, we all enjoy; holiday party for many years when the children were young.

INT: Describe what you know of the Guild’s history of fighting for creative rights on behalf of Directors and better working conditions on behalf of its members? And which of the changes in the Basic Agreement have been the most meaningful and important in terms of your personal experience?

TJ: Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Well, surely through the PAC Committee [Political Action Committee of the Directors Guild of America] and through attending the National Board meetings, hearing about what creative rights issues are on the table, and being fought for, I think, is very important that it impacts us directly, even as ADs [Assistant Directors] and UPMs insofar as our pension plans and health plans are affected by the residuals that these earn. So it’s interesting to be aware of those creative issues as we support the Directors and their battle to maintain their creativity, fighting runaway production, fighting privacy, those issues. It’s a terrific thing to participate in. The Council activities and the National Board meetings, just to be aware of those issues that are coming, that are coming up and being faced by the Directors Guild. And also, as new technology comes in, I know the Guild is very good about keeping the National Board apprised of new technology, and new technology issues, and the seminars that are held here to keep people abreast of what’s happening in the Guild, and as this industry is changing, and as it will change and adapt for the future. So I think the Guild is very good about staying on top of cutting edge technology, and keeping us members informed; doing what it can to offer the education for the members. And it’s up to members to come to the trough and partake of it.

INT: And I didn’t write this question, but what is the most important service provided to its members by the DGA? I mean there’s so many, I don’t know how do you dec--

TJ: What is the most important? What is the most important? I don’t know. There’s so many. I think the powerful contract that the Guild has been able to deliver for its members, and the high standard of quality that it’s maintained for the DGA members and the AD/UPMs. I think the Guild is probably the most respected labor organization in Hollywood as far as its leadership goes, and as far as its certain pension, health plan. It just has a wonderful amount of benefits for its members.

INT: We've discussed part of this previously, but has the perception of the role of the Assistant Director changed throughout your career? How about the role of the UPM? Has the Directors Guild played a role in this change or perception and in the prestige of its occupation, of these occupations?

TJ: I think we pretty much covered that subject with regard to the Assistant Director--[INT: I thought so.]--when we talked about the Director having the choice of the AD [Assistant Director]. I think the role--and we also sort of breached that with, broached that with the UPM with the advent of Line Producer. I do think the UPM’s role has been diminished. And I think with so many production coord--I’m vitally concerned about the role of the UPM in the future, with the growth of the production executives, and production supervisors, production coordinators all infringing on the role of the UPM, so I’m vitally concerned about it. It’s one of the most important issues, I think, that the AD/UPM Council is doing is that UPM Committee fighting for its existence.

INT: What would you advise someone new to the industry about joining the DGA and why? And I think there’s a footnote to this: what would you advise someone who’s even anticipating entering the industry [entertainment industry] today?

TJ: Well, you know, perhaps it’s looking back after 40 years, I think it’s important to remember that this is a very youth oriented industry. And it’s something that people in their 20s are not aware of and can’t even conceive of. But it’s something that they should be mindful of. When they hit 45, 45--50, 55, those years are not gonna be as easy for them as--they’re not gonna be as sought after as they are in their 20s and 30s. So there is a lot of ageism that is at play in the entertainment industry, and it for whatever reason, I would--think it’s important that they plan for the future; have another activity, another hobby, another occupation that they can augment their income if, for whatever reason, they are unsuccessful in working as much as they would like to be working.

INT: Would you advise someone, you know, having seen the industry change as much as it has, and the employment opportunities change as much as they have in the last 30 years, would you advise someone to enter this industry today?

TJ: My advise to everybody who tells me that they want to get in the film industry is to, “Run! Don’t do it!” [Laughs] And I mean that quite sincerely, because it’s a very difficult business, and there’s a lot of hardship. But if you won’t be dissuaded by that statement, if your passion is so great for this industry that regardless of what I say, you’re gonna pursue a career in it, then god bless you. And I think you should go at it wholeheartedly and give it your all, and let the chips fall where they may. But you should be forewarned that there are some difficulties involved. It’s also much more competitive than it was when I came in. There are far more people competing for the jobs than there were when I started. [INT: Yeah. I mean you and I both--] Sure. [INT: You know, immediately became key Second ADs [Second Assistant Directors]--] Exactly. [INT: And as soon as we had our days moved up to First AD [First Assistant Director]. Nowadays--] It takes six, eight years for people to make those moves.

INT: What are some of the honors that you have received?

TJ: Oh gosh. The--well, the most notable one was the--what was the--[INT: Frank Capra Award!] The Frank Capra Award [Frank Capra Achievement Award] we just received recently. That’s the most, the most--award for which I’m most grateful--that I was honored. I also got an Oscar Micheaux Award for a series of seminars I did in St. Louis years ago for a friend of mine who had invited me--Richard Welles and I went out and did some seminars on film production and they gave us--I think they declared a Tom Joyner day in St. Louis and gave me an award for that, but that was… But those are the only awards that come to mind.

INT: And I know that we’re wrapping this up now, that not only do you volunteer with, you know, within the Guild [DGA], but you also volunteer elsewhere. And can you just discuss a little bit about your current job?

TJ: Oh, I’ve, I’ve gone to work about six months ago, I went to work with an organization called Workplace Hollywood, which is a, it’s a wonderful non-profit organization whose mission is to help find employment in the motion picture and television industry for underprivileged and underrepresented classes. The basic premise being that the workforce should reflect the community in which we live. And it’s had tremendous success from the unions and the studios. And they’re, we’re getting very close to having a program approved--it’s been approved by the IA [IATSE or International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Moving Picture Technicians, Artists and Allied Crafts of the United States, Its Territories and Canada]; we’re just getting the legal work worked out, where upon completion of the proper training, the candidates will be able to be placed on the industry experience roster, so they won’t have to go through the permit process. The training will satisfy the training program as specified presently in the current IA [IATSE] agreements. They can have immediate placement on the roster. They’ll have to work 30 days to join the union, but they won’t have to wait for permit days to work. So then we can go to the studios and say, “You’ve always said you wanted to hire a diverse workforce; these are people eligible to work, available for work on the roster now. You’re certainly free to hire them.” [INT: How do we do go about that? I mean I think it’s a, it’s a wonderful thing that you’re doing, but, you know, we’ve had a African American Steering Committee; we’ve had a--within the Guild, we've had--and this represents Guild members--we’ve had Hispanic [Latino Committee]; you know, we have an Asian Steering Committee [Asian American Committee]; we’ve had a Women's Steering Committee. And it is so hard to convince the studios to delve into this well of talent. Where’s the bottleneck, you know? Everybody’s aware of it, everybody’s well intentioned, but yet, the percentage of women, Hispanics [Latinos], minorities don’t increase. Where’s the bottleneck?] Wow. Well, I think the--I think everybody’s busy pointing fingers. You know, the studios are saying, “Well, gee. We don’t hire them. The individual Producers hire them.” The Producers say, “Well, we don’t hire them. Our production managers hire them.” And the production managers say, “I don’t hire them. The Production Designers, and cameramen, and construction coordinators hire them.” It--and I think it has to come from the top; I think if the Producers will say, “We would like to see a diverse crew, we would like to see more diversity in our film crews.” If the studios would say that to the Producers, and the Producers would say that to the Production Managers [UPM], and the Production Managers and our Producer/Directors would communicate that to the Production Designers, construction coordinators, and camera people, who in turn, would allow it to go to their grips and gaffers, I think you would start to see it. There also has to be a viable workforce available for that to happen. I know the Guild does have a viable workforce in several minority categories. The crafts, the basic crafts basically do not. So we're trying to create and provide that workforce to help that work. And I think as you find more and more minority Actors gaining stature and minorities gaining success in the film industry, they will start--each one helps one--will start increasing the numbers. And I think it’s a slow process, but I think it’ll occur. And I think once that consciousness is maintained--it’s the same thing in casting. If the Casting Directors would recognize the--who, who told this story. I can’t recall the story that--the Director was sitting next to Maya Angelou, and he was casting a picture, and he mentioned that, “Well, would you like to be in the picture?” Yes she would, but the only part he had available was for a middle age white man, “Would you like the role?” And she took the role and did it and it was fine. But it was just why--just because there’s a role that’s maybe described in a screenplay as a certain ethnicity doesn’t mean that you can’t cast it against type; doesn’t mean it couldn’t be played by, by an Asian, American Indian, an African American, what have you, or the opposite gender. It just needs some creative thought in casting. And I think once this sensibility--casting against type--becomes more prevalent, I think, I think it will increase.

INT: Well, I’ve run out of questions. [TJ: Well, good.] So do you have any, do you have any last, last words of wisdom or do you have--

TJ: No. I’ve just been very grateful for a wonderful career in the film, in the film business, and as a DGA member. And I look forward to many more years as a DGA member. I’m presently sort of considering myself still between pictures even though I’ve taken my retirement, so… [INT: Okay. Let me ask you one more question. In 30 years, what is the best anecdote that you could tell us?] I’d have to give that some thought. I don’t know if I could come up with something just that quick. [INT: The funniest thing, the scariest thing?] Can’t do it. [INT: Well, I’m out.] I’m not gonna go there. [Laughs]