INT: This brings us to a really point in terms of the technical side of making movies. You get the script, STARMAN; now this was at what studio, Warner Bros.? [TJ: This was, no, Sony [Sony Pictures Entertainment].] Sony, it was Sony. And have they already--[TJ: Columbia [Columbia Pictures], excuse me.] Columbia. [TJ: Pre Sony.] Now, did they already have a preliminary board and budget, or did they just hire you and say, you know, “Tom, we need you to break this down and budget it and see where we’re at on this…”

TJ: Well, you know, it’s interesting. I think with every, I think every Producer has a preliminary board and budget done before they really get beyond the development stage, just to get a sense of what ball park they’re in. Cast notwithstanding, they wanna have a sense of what type of picture are they making? They wanna know that how much money are they gonna have to raise, what’s it gonna take to make this picture, so they have a guesstimate and they’ve hired somebody to do a preliminary board and budget. And I think be it done by an independent Producer or be it done by the studio; now, the studio may have jobbed it out to somebody, they may have it done in house by an accountant, but there’s this preliminary board and budget that’s out there. How real it is depends on who did it and what the circumstances are when it was done and is it the same picture that’s actually going to be done, ‘cause sometimes they, "Oh add big stars to it and make it huge movie," you know, or sometimes, "we’re gonna do it in a different manner." But there’s always this preliminary budget that’s done. When you come on in preparation as a Production Manager [UPM], the first thing you wanna do is do your own board and budget, just to make sure that you’re, you agree with the ball park that they’re trying to do it in, or if you see something that’s drastically wrong with the preliminary board and budget, you need to bring it to someone’s attention as soon as possible or say, you know, “This is how I see it done, unless you want it, if you don’t want it in this ball park, we’re gonna have to make certain drastic changes in the approach to the picture.” But it’s just defining that initial board and budget and what you think and how it needs to be done. And something I always work with is--and you don’t hear talked about enough. You always hear people talking about schedules and budgets, but, to me, the pre-production calendar is one of the most important things that you do when you come on to a picture. And a lot of people don’t--this isn’t talked about so much in film school. They talk about schedules and they talk about budgets, but a pre-production calendar is where are you today and when do you start shooting, and what has to be done between now and then, and when do we start this person, when do we do this, and laying out that pre-production plan, which is so critical to getting the picture properly prepared and shot. What’s unfortunate is in the major studio system is so often times they’ll decide when a picture is gonna start based on when they want it released. “We want this picture for summer. That means, well, if we give, you know, so much post-production, that if we give or allow 15, 16, 20 weeks for post-production, that means it has to finish by this date. And if we allow so many days to shoot, that means it has to start here and,” they kind of back in to their start dates. And, but you say, “But wait a minute. It’s a winter picture and you have us shooting in July,” I mean, you just, sometimes the release schedule doesn’t always match the preparation period, so you need to look at the picture to take a look at what--you do what you have to do regardless of when it’s being made, but ideally, you need to look at it and do that pre-production calendar and see if you have enough, adequate amount of time to get it done, to get it shot, and then to get it posted. And if you don’t know where the locations are, you need to have some, you know, send somebody out to find those locations. It may be a method of sending the script out to various, you know, film commissions and asking them to send photographs back. It may be sending somebody out. Maybe you have an idea of where it was written for. But, it’s, that’s such a creative part of, to me, of filmmaking is taking that screenplay and deciding when and how it’s gonna be shot.

INT: But that’s, but that’s a very good, that’s a very good thought in terms of who determines, you know, I’m sure the studio has an idea of how many weeks of prep and how weeks to shoot and how many weeks of post, and then you come in as a dedicated, as a dedicated--

TJ: When the Production Manager [UPM] is hired, usually there’s a start date in mind and one of the things that I think your Production Manager wants to find out as soon as possible are what firm dates are locked into. “Do we have…Yes, you have a star in mind, does he have a firm start date? Yes, no?" Sometimes, oftentimes if there’s a commitment from a star, but his window’s open, and then you can really get into it--[INT: No, but--]--But if there’s a firm start date out there that you know that somebody’s already signed that contract with a first start date, you must start by this date. Now you know that, what you have to work within and--[INT: Well, on a movie like STARMAN, which is a very complicated movie in terms of visual effects, special effects--not so much visual effects in those days, but special effects--and multiple locations across the country, you’re given a certain number of weeks of prep. I mean as an experienced Production Manager who the studio has selected to work on or the Producers have selected to do this movie, do you have any leeway? I mean, granted, you know, if the star has been locked in, you know, and their dates are very specific, you know, you’ve got a real problem. I mean then it’s just a matter of throwing, throwing people at the prep, you know, multiple Location Mangers, maybe a Production Designer and multiple Art Directors, you know what I mean? I mean, you know, one thing you learn about in this business is that everything is salvable--] Sure. [INT:--if you throw enough assets at it. So how did you approach STARMAN? You know, you get the script, you’re reading it, and then what?] Well, we indicate, we found out where we could burn the woods--that was a key thing, so then we planned a scouting trip out and Larry Franco [Larry J. Franco] and the Director and I flew out to Tennessee and did some location scouting. Now, they had the script in advance. They had some areas to show us and has some requirements that we want, some sets that we wanted them to find, so when we got out there, they had an itinerary planned for us and we looked at various options and different cities and were able to piece and parcel it together there. Winslow, Arizona and the crater we knew had to be there, ‘cause there’s only one crater. We had to make our arrangements and logistics there. And then Las Vegas, we had some little fine-tuning to do with the casino. And then we had some sets to build--[INT: So you walk in, so you walk in--] But it’s a matter of just laying it out on the calendar. When are we gonna do it, when are we gonna and you try to coordinate when they’re ready to show it. When can we get out there? And it’s just a matter of coordinating on this preproduction calendar when the best time to get out and do it is to get it back--we also had a lot of coordination to do with the military, with getting the helicopters and getting those promoted and that was a huge aspect that we, that we had turned over to someone to kind of do a lot of that coordination for us, to pull that together. There was a lot of, a lot of materials that had to be done, to be put together. And then we had a little bit of military rehearsal to make sure our extras could look appropriate. That took some time too, so we had a lot of different things going on. But it was just a matter of defining what needed to be done and making the arrangements for it and getting it done.

INT: Do you, do you as a Production Manager [Unit Production Manager] have any, I’ll even ask you going back to being a Second [Second Assistant Director] and a First [First Assistant Director], but do you have any things that you do differently or do you...in terms of do you have periodic meetings with all the department heads, do you have… I mean is there anything you do in terms of your prep? Most of, also, once you do your own board and do your own budget and you find your board and your budget differs from the studio’s board and budget, how do you approach that? I mean, you know, you’re an experienced production person, a well respected, how do--

TJ: Well, again, the budget that I prepared is something that I prepared sitting at a desk at a computer, putting it out based on my experience. I’ll try to get department heads in and get their input as much as possible, that you get their input into the budget, to help validate what I’ve done, “Let me see what you’re, you know, what are your thoughts on this, how do we do this, can we do this this way?” And it’s a constant conversation with department heads. And you go to the wardrobe department, you know, “What are your challenges, what are your difficulties, how do you see this, what you...” you know, and just trying to get all that information pulled together. Can we do it in this timeframe, “Gee, we can’t do it that way, we have to think another way to do it.” And then also staying in touch with your Producer and Director on the process as it all comes together. [INT: So who then goes back to the studio and says, “Look, you know, this is, you have it down as a 25 million dollar movie and this is really gonna be a 35 million dollar movie, who--] Hopefully you don’t have that big a swing. But what I always do on a picture, I think your loyalty, obviously, the studio, you’ve been approved by the studio, loyalty to the studio, which their money you’re spending, but the communication always has to go to the Producer and it has to be presented in a manner that the Producer wants to present it to the studio. There’s issues that need to be addressed. You wanna make sure that the Director and the Producer are aware of them and then let the Producer take the story or how do you want it to coordinate. And it--sometimes it’s a little difficult to maintain that and sometimes you have to be careful about your budgeting process, because oftentimes you’re working with studio accountants and studio...and you have no idea or no control over what the studio accountant's doing on it, who they’re reporting to, so you’re working with the communication and the information that you have and you’re communicating to your Producer, relying on your Producer to take it to the studio at the appropriate time.

INT: Have you noticed it, ‘cause I’m beginning to notice it in television, but have you noticed that the finance people and the accounting people and the production people, they’re almost like separate entities. You know, there seems to be like a, I wouldn’t say working at cross-purposes, but working at, for their own purposes?

TJ: Well, there’s a difference between accounting and finance. I think you’re talking about accounting people as opposed to finance, but yeah--[INT: Well, whoever, whoever the production accountant reports to--] Right, production accounting, yeah. [INT: I mean what was happening years ago, years ago, the production accountant would report to the Production Manager [Unit Production Manager] and the Production Manager then would do whatever he wants to do with that information. But now, I find, I find accountants almost being, becoming independent entities within the production office or outside the production office.] I, thank goodness, haven’t found that, but I have always found a sense from the accountant of, “Well, why does it cost so much,” or, “why does it need to be this, why does it need to be that?” And I, well, you know, that’s accountants who’ve not done a lot of big features. It takes a certain amount of vision, I think, when you’re sitting in an office, you know, you’re figuring man hours and well, you have so many man hours, so many man days, why does it cost so much?” Not understanding sometimes the dynamics of what happens on a set. And I think oftentimes accountants don’t have that awareness of the dynamics of what happens on a set or what the needs of a set are that can complicate things or increase costs. This is what it’s supposed to be, but the, you know, the driver didn’t get there, this didn’t get picked up, that had to happen and this changed and that broke and we had to fix that, you know? So things go up. And it’s just a difference of mentality that I know of very--good accountant friend of mine used to just, boy, he just couldn’t get along with teamsters. He just couldn’t stomach, he just couldn’t stand seeing drivers paid that much money. They drive a truck there in the morning, they drive it home at night; they don’t do anything all day, they get all this money. That was his mentality of what teamsters were and he just could not get past that.

INT: Let me ask you a question. We’ve already talked about the challenge of burning a forest, which is, has all kinds of challenges to it in terms of safety, in terms of doing the burn, in terms of finding the location, what other challenges and how did you solve them, what other challenges did that movie present to you and how did you go about solving them?

TJ: Well, let’s see. Well, there was the logistical one of just all the different moves, and that was just making sure that all the bases were covered and all the things were taken care of. Rehearsal time? I don’t--that was a, we had some equipment issues; we had to charter some planes in and out of Winslow to get some camera gear taken care of in a hurry. I had a good charter company that I worked with that was able to get stuff into us when we needed it, but it… Actually, went pretty well. We didn’t have any major health issues--[INT: So the prep, so preparation was, preparation was the key to success?] It was well prepared, it was and--preparation was the key and it was just wonderful to watch that flow. One of my favorite stories is AGAINST ALL ODDS again with Bill Gilmore [William S. Gilmore], a picture I did will Bill Gilmore. We were shooting in Cancun and had to go over and shoot a couple of days in Isla Mujeres, which is a small island, and had a very small airfield and we had to get over there with a little small airplanes. And when we’d completed our photography, we were flying from Isla Mujeras to Tulum and then half the crew was--some of the crew was going to Los Angeles to prep for us coming up there, some was going to Chichen Itza to prep for us there, and some was shooting in Tulum, where we were moving to. So we had the crew going in different directions, and we’re all coming out of the hotels in Isla Mujeres, so we had these small planes coming up, but all the luggage is coming down to the lobby, and we’re going, “What a nightmare.” And so we just very simply put green yarn on this, yellow yarn on those, and red yarn on the other and all the bags were separated according to their destination with what color yarn was on the bags. Not a single piece--well, one thing was lost. It got tucked behind a seat in a bus. But nothing got lost. One thing couldn’t be found in Chichen Itza, but it was a, but it was ultimately turned up. But they all got on planes, and we’d done some shooting in the morning and as they got on the plane, they were, everybody was handed a box lunch and said, “That’s lunch, thirty minutes.” They closed the plane doors and off they took. So they had lunch on the plane flying down.

INT: What other aspects of preparation, you know, because I’ve always felt as a First [First Assistant Director] and as a Production Manager [UPM] that, you know, if you put your really effort and you have a good cooperation with your Director in prep, that the shooting should be almost an afterthought. So what, what are the key elements that you approach in prep, aside from communication of course?

TJ: Well, what’s important is making sure that the Cinematographer [Director of Photography], the Production Designer, and the Director are all on the same page with regard to the style and photography that they’re shooting in and that the Production Designer’s got the right types of fixtures and things in the set and the cameraman, they’re all in sync over the design of the set. And it’s just a lot of communication and brainstorming, so there aren’t any surprises and working out all those things, making sure that the sets are properly scouted. And it’s just conversation. It’s talking to the department heads, making sure that everybody’s on the same page. I always think it’s interesting to go through that script with the Director to find out what scenes are really important, what he really wants to go through with a fine tooth comb and there’s other sequences that, that he'll be perfectly comfortable and going through the broad strokes that are not as detail oriented and that may often be different sequences than you as an AD [Assistant Director] might think of, or you as a Production Manager might think of. So it’s important to be able to prioritize those and… The certain scenes that the Director may not care a lot, maybe have at the end of the schedule.

INT: How do you deal with something if you, since the Assistant Director--I’m talking about prep now--since the Assistant Director is the Director’s choice and you’re getting a sense that the Assistant Director is not up to the project, is not up to the task, how do you, how do you deal with that?

TJ: I’ve never had that problem, thank goodness, but if I did run across that problem and the Director was really tied into the First [First Assistant Director], I would, I would support the First however I could; be it with additional Seconds [Second Assistant Directors] or additional support or whatever needed to make sure that if he didn’t feel he was there, do whatever you need to build him up there too get him there, but… I think you have to support the Director’s vision wherever possible, if it’s a total disaster, if the guy’s totally incompetent, which I can’t imagine the Director wanting him there if he couldn’t rely on him to deliver the work, I think you might have to express your concerns to the Director, “Are you sure you have the right man for this project?” But I can’t imagine a Director bringing in somebody that he didn’t feel comfortable in running the ship for him.

INT: What was the--STARMAN was one of the more challenging projects you did as a--either as a First [First Assistant Director] or as a Production Manager [UPM]. What was the most memorable project and why?

TJ: Oh gosh, they’re all memorable for different reasons. There’s wonderful stories out of SLAP SHOT. Again, there’s another picture I did with Wally Worsley [Wallace Worsley, Jr.], but dealing with the hockey players. I came into that, I actually repl--[INT: As a First?] I came as a First. I came in and replaced another First, who was a terrific First, but he had the habit of go over to solve the problem instead of remaining by the camera. And George Roy Hill wanted his First by the camera all the time. And this guy was a great First, but if there was a problem over there, he’d go fix it. [INT: That drives me nuts.] And he would leave the camera and George [George Roy Hill] just felt that he wasn’t taking care of business, so I flew out and replaced him; came in with short notice and hadn’t been on ice skates since 9th grade, and there I am wobbling around the ice rink and these hockey players are, you know, sliding and showering you with ice and they were a pretty rowdy bunch. And the difficult thing--they were B-League hockey players are, is just a really rough, rough genre to get into. And these guys were just wild and crazy. And it takes so long to get into your hockey gear, to get taped up, to get all the gear on, and, of course, they’re uncomfortable when they’re not shooting, so they want to take it all off. So it’s difficult. It was really a challenge. Dan Callswood was the trainee on the show, with Wayne Farlow [Wayne A. Farlow] was the Second [Second Assistant Director]. And they were always getting picked on, getting abused and beat up by these hockey players. But that was, that was a lot of fun for a lot of reasons. Jamestown, Pennsylvania was an interesting city to shoot in. It was an interesting steel country, steel mine; interesting to see the Jamestown floods, the high-water line and just that blue collar culture and shooting in the arenas there, it was just really an interesting cultural experience. [INT: How’d they recruit their hockey players?] Most of that work was done before I got there, because I did replace the First that was there, so I’m really not sure about that. But I think they were just B-league hockey players that they had put together and cobbled together the team and put them all on contracts. [INT: What are the unique problems of shooting on ice?] Shooting on ice, well, you’re on ice for one thing. [INT: What did, what kinds of shoes did the crew wear?] A lot of us were on skates, and some of them were just on kind of on boots, but if you were wearing shoes, you wanted to have thick soles ‘cause that cold would seep through. But we created some very unique camera platforms--little--on skates with a little cam, a little head with--you’d get low angles that you could push with, like, a little stick around--[INT: And this was all anticipated, this was all anticipated in prep?] It was all anticipated and all put together that was designed and able to do and it was interesting. It was fun to do.

INT: Last question about this: most memorable show you’ve worked on?

TJ: Most memorable? Well, I think JAWS would be hard to--[INT: JAWS?]--hard to, hard to beat as a memorable show. It was a year of my life. [Laughs] I was actually on it two weeks short of a year from actual time of prep ‘til the time we finished shooting in California--[INT: Now, one name that you threw out there was TENDER MERCIES, that you said…] That was such a sweet little, sweet, nice, small--[INT: It was a wonderful movie.]--little picture that we, we did it in--and I’d done a picture called TOUGH ENOUGH in Dallas and went, had just gotten back to--[INT: Who directed that? That was, that was--] Bruce Beresford. Bruce Beresford, yeah. [INT: Bruce Beresford, right.] Bruce Beresford directed it. And it was an opportunity to come out and do the picture. We found the locations in Waxahachie, Texas, which was like 30 miles south of Dallas--[INT: I shot there.] And it was all just a little, the hotel worked great, and the logistics were great and it was just an opportunity to go out everyday and make your picture at the little--[INT: It’s a really sweet movie.]--at the little Gasto motel and it was, it was a sweet picture. [INT: Were you based out of, based out of Dallas?] Basically a Dallas crew with a few department heads from L.A. And it worked, worked very well. It was just a fun little picture. We had some teamster problems, but other than that, it worked really well. [INT: I’m trying to remember, was there music in that?] There was a, there was a song. There was a piece or two, but that, you know…

INT: See you’ve done it all. You know, you’ve been a trainee, a Second AD [Second Assistant Director], a First AD [First Assistant Director], a UPM [Unit Production Manager], a Producer, and a production executive, including working at a bonding company; what do you like best or do you just like making movies?

TJ: Well, I think the most fun job is that of a First AD. That really is the most fun. You’re on the set, you’re running the crew, you’re, you've got a great rapport with the crew. You’re kind of the little captain leading the charge. You have a rapport with the cast and it’s a wonderful feeling of accomplishment each and every day at the end of the day to complete the day’s work. It also is probably one of the most demanding. It’s very physically challenging. There’s a lot of pressure and it’s a lot of work and it takes a lot of concentration. But it is a very rewarding job. I think the Production Manager's [UPM] job is creative, it’s a little, get’s a little bureaucratic, you get a little desk bound, but there’s a little more money involved, and your prep time, your periods for employment are a little longer, so there’s advantages there--[INT: There’s the wrap.] And then you have the wrap time as well. The line producer’s job is, I think, a great job, even if you’re doing both jobs, because you’re on the set, and you do, are able to maintain that rapport with the crew and the cast and be part of the team that’s making the picture; you’re not isolated so much in the desk. The studio executive’s job is interesting from a different, different perspective--[INT: Yeah, you’ve put in more than a decade at two companies--] What was, what was interesting at--your learning curve accelerates exponentially as a production executive because you’re monitoring. As the executive production manager at Disney [Walt Disney Pictures], I was monitoring all the feature films that were being shot that year, so instead of one or two pictures, I was overseeing six to eight pictures. And overseeing, not, it’s not getting, you’re not getting involved, you’re not doing the pictures. But I used to try to go out and visit all the key locations, so I’d at least have a sense of where they were shooting, what they were doing, and I would have an understanding of their production plan. And I’d be aware of the major problems that occurred with every show and how they were solved. Now, I wasn’t the one on the show solving the problem, but at least I was aware of it. So you learn about how a picture with trains is being done, or how a picture with, you know, overseas are dealing with customs issues and shipping equipment, and all these different projects that are being done. You sort of have the benefit of all the production issues that came up and how they were solved from a studio point of view. So you really grow in your knowledge of production. And I think you gain a lot of knowledge about labor relations and about legal and working conditions and the IA [IATSE] contracts from working from the studio perspective. [INT: Did you feel that you were a better production executive because you had come up from being a trainee?] Oh very much so, very much so, because you had an understanding and I could talk to the filmmakers and understand and speak to them in their language, and I was very sympathetic to what they were doing. I always was, always on the filmmaker’s side. If--[INT: How do you feel about the executives who’ve not come up that way, you know, come out of accounting, who’ve come out of location managing, even some been transportation coordinators?] I think it depends on the executive, and I don’t think you can lump them in and, you know, tarnish them all with the same brush. But I don’t think anything beats coming up through the ranks, learning the production. I mean there’s been some fine, I’ve known some fine Production Managers that come out of the accounting department that didn’t have the benefit of the set. I mean there are people who do that. There are a lot that I don’t think that have that understanding, because they haven’t been there. There’s nothing that can match having been there, but that’s not the only way to do it. There--if they have the passion for film and they believe in the picture, and that they’re there on the side of the picture to help the film succeed, that’s the important thing. There are certain executives who are out there trying to make themselves look good as opposed to making the film look good. And I think you have a sense of what I’m saying. They’re more concerned about protecting their job, protecting their career than getting and worrying about what’s best for the picture. And I think as long as their priorities are on the picture, they’re fine.

INT: How did you make that transition going from making movies to being a Production Executive?

TJ: I actually got a call from Marty Katz to, when he had just come over; it was the new Disney [Walt Disney Pictures] with Eisner, with Michael Eisner and Jeffrey Katzenberg. And Marty had just come on board and he called me to, to meet. He was actually looking for a VP of Production and an Executive Production Manager, for both jobs. And I interviewed for both jobs and then Barrie Osborne [Barrie M. Osborne] ended up going in as the VP of Production and I was the Executive Production Manager. And once Barrie was selected, I went up and met with Barrie and we gelled and went together and that’s how that started. And it was, it was an interesting operation. Disney, at that time, was quite a place to be and it was a very powerful learning experience and getting involved with a lot of the departments and it was a wonderful experience. [INT: How did you know Marty Katz?] I’d worked with Marty on a, on a small--when I left Universal [Universal Pictures]--no, it was actually on a down period at Universal [Universal Pictures]. I was a Second [Second Assistant Director] and my very first job as an over scale Second [Second Assistant Director] was with ABC Circle Films. And we did a picture, again, with Joe Alves that John Badham directed in Oregon. And they had come to me said, “Well, we’re gonna pay you a little bit over scale, and would like you to go down, we’re not gonna take a projectionist from L.A., but we’re gonna sneak a projector out, so would you go down and get checked out on it, so you can teach the guy when we get up there?” So gullible me, “Sure, yes. Of course I would.” And I did that and up we went. And, of course, they didn’t hire a projectionist; it ended up being me. It was the only show in my life I ever had to resort to chemicals to do my job. [Laughs] I was--there was a First [First Assistant Director] and a Second [Second Assistant Director], and the First [First Assistant Director] was also--the Unit Manager [UPM] was the Production Executive, Dennis Judd was not DGA at the time, so they had a UPM [Unit Production Manager] First to cover it. And he would spend a fair amount of time off the set, and I was Second, and there was nobody else that was--[INT: Oh my word.]--the stand-ins, myself running the set and we’d get the call sheet and at the end of the day, I’d get the call sheet out and then I’d have to go and run dailies, and then after dailies, I’d go and do the production report and everything for the, all the balance all the paperwork, and I was working such long, such long days; I actually had to result to some, some chemicals to keep me going through the day.[Laughs] [INT: And that, and that was before, that was before we had extended days within the DGA.] It was, yeah. It was just, we were just working brutal 16-hour days. It was just brutal; I was collapsing every night. It was, it was--[INT: My word, I’ve never heard that one before.] But that’s how I met Marty Katz. [INT: Did you work with him subsequent to that?] Not until Disney. [INT: You’re joking?! So he remembered you from that experience of running the projection?] Right. Right. Right, right, right. [INT: My word!] Yeah. Well, my name, obviously, came up to him from someone else, but that’s how I’d met him. So I was there for the year at Disney for a two year period.

INT: Let’s see. I think we’ve covered--there’s a question here, in feature films or single camera work, being television, have you always freelanced or have primarily held staff positions at--we've discussed...[TJ: Well, it’s been a little of both, a little of both. Yeah.] Compare the pros and cons of freelancing versus staff work and describe--this is not my question--and describe how you transition from one to another? Have you worked as a Producer, which we talked about, studio or network executive, which we’ve talked about, and how did those differ from UPM work, which we’ve talked about?

TJ: Well, in retrospect, what happened in a staff job, it’s great because you’re there for an extended period of time, you’re there under contract, basically. I was two years at Disney [Walt Disney Pictures], and six years at Warner Bros. You know where you’re going to be, you can plan a vacation, you can do--there’s a lot of, a lot of pluses to be said for a staff job, for the security of working at a studio and not end up… When you’re working in the freelance world, I think, you’re much more cognizant of having to network, looking for that next job, and you’re networking skills are a lot more finely tuned, and you’re always exploring what’s gonna comes next. It’s kind of more exciting I think in the freelance world, but it’s a little safer in the staff world. And I enjoyed being at the studio for extended period of times, because it was just time for me to spend that time with my family. They were growing up at a time where that stability of being home--I was on the road and on distant location for so much, for so long, it was beginning to be a real strain on the family. [INT: I was, I was gonna ask you that near the end about how this industry or how this kind of work, be the insecurity of the freelance nature of the work, or the long hours, the long distant locations, how does one adjust their family life? I mean, you know, how does, you know, you miss, you know, school events, you miss birthdays, how do you adapt to that or how do you--] It’s a strain. It’s a strain. You have, so the time you do spend together has to be quality time ‘cause it is, it is limited. And I used to always, when I was on distant location--it was interesting. I’d be on distant location and I would put a lot of pressure on wife to be able to rise to the occasion of be able to run and manage the household and take care of all those issues that had to be taken care of. When I would come home, recognizing what she had been, I didn’t feel it was right for me to step in and try to take over everything. I would allow her to continue to run that operation and be supportive of her. But I tried to take my family with me on location wherever I could. And once I got past being a Second [Second Assistant Director], as a First AD [First Assistant Director] I was able to do that and we’d fetch the kids--[INT: So how often did you, how often did you take your kids…] On distant location? Gosh, the kids went to school, they went to school in Florida; they went to school in Texas; they went to school in Martha’s Vineyard. We had them overseas on THE LAST REMAKE OF BEAU GESTE. We, it was great. We had a flat in London we lived for a month when we prepped. Then we went to Ireland and were there for a month. Marty Feldman came down with chicken pox and the company shut down for three weeks, so my wife took the kids and did touring through Scotland and all--we went down to Spain, where we would be shooting later and did additional prep down there, so--[INT: What a wonderful experience for you--]--it was just a wonderful experience for them. They were able to, you know, get friends. They’ve been to Canada, they’ve just to a, to learn different cultures, to make friends from around the world and they’ve had, they’ve got a couple of pen pals that they still communicate with and, you know, from over the years. And Laura certainly does, so it’s been good.

INT: When you were a, and please go into detail on this, when you were First AD [First Assistant Director] or Second AD [Second Assistant Director] or UPM, what specific things did you do to network?

TJ: Well, let’s see. We certainly keep track of all your crew lists to begin with and as you’re looking for that next opportunity--I used to always try to find a couple of contemporaries that--it’s interesting in this industry when you get a job, you’ll get two or three job opportunities. My philosophy has always been say yes to everything until you have to say no, ‘cause oftentimes, things will cancel, things will fall out. If you said something, yes to something, but you’re saying yes to something else, you might let them know that you have a prior commitment that may or may not come to pass. You have to be very honest about what you’re doing. But the first one with a definite bonafide offer of employment, I’ve always, I’ve always accepted. But in networking, it’s just a matter of staying in touch with who you know, maybe making a round of phone calls every--I always say, if you can reach out and touch people every six weeks, that’s about the right amount of time. Anything more than that, you’re being a pest. If you have an opportunity, if anything occurs in your life, it’s an opportunity to reach out and let people know. Keeping your, getting your name across the desk is the key. Just making sure that, “Oh, sure,” ‘cause out of sight, out of mind is really true in this world. If you could, if there’s a--if you’ve moved, it’s a change of address that comes out, if you have a new email address, information on that, little postcard, you’re just completing a project, a little postcard, you’re starting a project, just an opportunity to go out to your network to keep you aware that you’re alive and well, so that every time you contact them, every time you call them, you’re not there with your hat and hand looking for a job. You’re informing them of what’s going on in your life and what’s going on; “Here’s a little postcard that I was in, I was in the museum the other day, I saw a little postcard that reminded me of you. I thought you might like to have it.” You know, just a little, little, little, little thing like that. I think it’s important to reach out to those people that you think are important in your life, to keep them aware of what’s happening with you and what’s going on in your life. And I think it’s a matter of being supportive of them, and them being supporting of you. And also, let people know what your intention is. It’s interesting when you, you’ll set an intention about wanting to do something and somebody’s going, “Gee, I didn’t know you wanted to do that; I--that’s right over here.” So if you let everybody know what it is you’re looking for, and they’re out there networking for you. If they hear of something on your behalf, they’ll bring it back to you. So that’s kind of my networking tips.

INT: One question, which is related to something I asked before, ‘cause I have my favorite, my--the one I’m most proud of, what project do you think you’re most proud of?

TJ: Wow. Oh wow. AGAINST ALL ODDS was, was a proud accomplishment. [INT: Who directed that?] That was Taylor Hackford. You filled…[Laughs] Taylor Hackford directed that. He did a terrific job. But it was a wonderful, beautiful film. It was a good movie. We had shooting in different locations in Mexico and a big chase down Sunset Boulevard that’s been long standing, and it’s a good, powerful film. It’s a good movie. It was a--[INT: And you the UPM or the First [First Assistant Director]?] I was UPM on it. UPM. [INT: And what’s your proudest movie as a First?] Oh gosh, the picture I did in the Philippines--JAWS is hard to beat ‘cause it’s such a huge, huge success. I mean JAWS would have to be the pinnacle picture of my career. But I loved the little picture in the Philippines, working with the Filipino crews, and it was a sweet little movie, and that was, that was a lovely picture. Gosh, there’s…And working with Clint [Clint Eastwood]. BRONCO BILLY was just great fun.

INT: So much, so much of the industry has to do with personality; I mean we do have very strong, unique personalities, be it the cameraperson or the Actor or Director or even the crafts service people many times have attitude. How do you go about adapting and accommodating and dealing with the various strong personalities in the industry, be it production executive or a craft service person?

TJ: Well, I think you have to be thick skinned and learn not to take things personally; it’s not about you. You do what you do; you operate in the manner that you operate. And I oftentimes used to look at people and say, “Gee, I’m glad I don’t have to be you. It must be miserable to get up and look at the mirror in the morning and see yourself." [Laughs] [INT: You didn’t actually say that, did you?] I don’t actually say that, no. I keep it to myself, but I think it and it allows me to keep a smile on my face. But it’s just a matter of dealing with it, doing what has to be done, and not taking it personally, and having fun with it.

INT: In your entire career--and I’m not including Second AD [Second Assistant Director], but mainly First AD [First Assistant Director] and UPM and in some cases, maybe only First AD--what was the best collaboration experience you’ve had in the business, something that you really felt that you really had a major part in accomplishing the goals of a movie?

TJ: Wow. I was just--what popped to mind was a picture I did with John Badham years ago, THE BINGO LONG TRAVELING ALL-STARS & MOTOR KINGS. That was a wonderful period picture that we had a lot of fun working on, going to a lot of different exotic locations and working with the local people and the encouragements, and just the style and the fun that we had putting it together. There was a lot of, a lot of--[INT: Did you feel you had a real, that it was a real collab--you weren’t working for Badham, but you were--that it was a real collaboration?] Well, it was--we kind of had fun about the day’s work and what we were approaching, and how we were approaching it, and kind of did it as a team effort, and I fully felt part of that team. That was a, he was a very easy Director to work with and I had a lot, a lot of fun working with it, and it was just fun. John Carpenter, again, is a lot of success as a Production Manager [UPM] on that picture. I really enjoyed working with him. He always had his little caustic digs, but then he also knew how to say thank you and was appreciative of a job well done. So it was nice to--that was a positive experience. There were a lot of them. You know, it’s hard to--[INT: Sounds like you had, you had a great career.] It’s hard to pull out just one.