INT: A video image was a video image, you couldn’t do anything with it, it was what it was. And then suddenly, there was the opportunity to do something with it. That must have been- [AB: '76.] '76.
AB: I used the very first one. It was called, I called it the squeeze zoom. I don’t know what they called it. [INT: I remember DVE was the term used. It was the brand name.] Right, but the first one we used, we called it, in '76, was a squeeze zoom. I remember it. When I went into rehearsals to use it, anyone who worked in the building came to look at it 'cuz they could not believe what this could do, and I used to have to give everyone a demonstration. It could turn like a cube, it could squeeze a picture left to right, it could reduce it in size, I mean, it was like magic. Someone said, "My God! How do they do that? How you do that? It was like magic." That was probably the most magical tool that I ever got my hands with people’s reaction to it. [INT: And it was curious too because it went form you couldn't do it at all, to now you can do this one thing. And it tended, of course, like everything else, to get amazingly overused.] You couldn’t do anything. Before that, the only thing we could do as the wipe. That was it. We had one tool, I think, before that. [INT: Or re-shoot a monitor, which was considered a bad thing to do.] But it was such bad quality fall off even though we did it ‘cuz that’s the only thing we could do. But that was, but that was a magical moment, it really was.

INT: So as a director, were you now, now that you’ve been given this tool, were you starting to think in terms of well, now I can go back to my split screen and do all that stuff without having to…?
AB: That’s the start of the whole revolution, I mean, that was the, when technology started changing. And then in the ‘80s, I mean, that was our, we just go into computerized graphics into big time. I don’t know if you remember the election night of ’88, where I had a map of the United States, where I would actually be able to go form any state, pull back and go to another state and zoom into it. All I did was I shot, we put railroad tracks across the United States, three east to west, three north to south. At everyplace where they intersected, that was a splice point, so you’d be in New York and pull back to a splice point and then you’d go- [INT: Once you were there you could go?] Once you where there, you could go to any other splice point and in again. I mean, so it was just, we was making, this was real time. So what happened was I started working early on, like I told you, with Bob Abel [Robert Abel] who was doing such beautiful computer work, and what we would do is just bad quality. So I, for years, I said to him, and he would, we’d laugh about it. He’s doing these beautiful, beautiful images for advertising, and I’m doing these wonderful moves, but real bad quality for television, and I said, “You’ll see. I will get my quality equal to your quality.” It took me, I guess I was there by ‘84, but it was ‘76, ‘78, ’80, ‘82, I wasn’t there. The dubner was great moves, but really bad quality. By ‘84, I was making commercials real time.

INT: Also, if I remember correctly, when you took to, when you were gonna squeeze zoom a frame, when you took to it, there’d be a phase shift, there’d be a shift. And of course in films, optically when you were gonna make a dissolve, there would be a change in the texture before the effect went by, so it wasn’t like this was the worst thing in the world, but I-
AB: It was the worst thing in the world to me. I was working with people, I always used to do most of my work on the West coast with designers, and I’d go out there and I’d see the raw material. It was beautiful. And by the time it aired, it was terrible and it would just break my heart. [INT: Well, for the longest time, and they still do it, it’s so interesting, NBC evening news sort of picked up the kind of effects things. They can’t do enough things. I mean, Tom Brokaw literally walks to different places. It’s the same old same old, but they keep doing it. And finally at the end, they literally park a news van in front of the big sign in Times Square, and he says the last sentence and then just before he finishes, they cut to that sign, and they pull back from it. It’s what, they’ve been doing it for years, and they still can’t quite get the shift right on, so if they don’t cut it the right time, his voice goes out of sync.] Oh, I don’t see that. [INT: And sometimes they get it.] I saw it a coupled times. It’s very nice [INT: And he says, “That’s it for tonight. We’ll see you tomorrow, “ and it’s that half a second behind that most people don’t notice, but you notice it. A lot of that stuff is gone now. You don’t see that any more, that kind of shift, the technology was still, you were aware of it. Now, you don’t know. Now, you really can’t tell. I mean, it’s beautiful, it’s beautiful to watch when it’s, again, when it’s simple. But that’s just me and I want to honor you for keeping it simple.] The one thing is though, the technology has gotten so advanced that it’s really taken the fun out of it in a way ‘cuz we can do it instead of working towards doing it. I mean, like I was telling you, for years, it took me 8 years to get the good quality, and it drove me, I was really driven. And I made a lot of changes, made a lot of growth for us to get there. Today, there’s nothing that can drive you anymore ‘cuz you’re there. [INT: Either that or, I agree with you. The other thing is that, we’ve agreed that technically everything works, and it’s not particularly complicated, but you still have to make those choices if you’re doing a live show. “When do you cut?” and that’s an art, exactly where you put the camera, not where the camera is located, but exactly where you put the camera, and putting it on the end of a jib arm doesn’t guarantee that it’s gonna be in the right place at exactly the moment that you want it to be.] No, in fact one of the best shots I ever had, I made a deal with CNN in one of the conventions, and I put the camera on the side of his booth because I wanted to get it, and for some reason, you don’t know this in advance ‘cuz your doing it in an empty hall, so it’s not that I’m brilliant, but it worked for me, I got lucky. I had this one shot, I remember Roger Goodman was directing for ABC and he came up, “God, where’s that camera? and I said, “I have it on CNN,” …it was luck. I put it there, and as it turned out, it was just the right height above the people’s heads, but when I put it there, the seats weren’t there, you didn’t know what it was going to look like, and you had to make these choices are not based on seeing in advance these big events. You have to pick your spots on paper. Six months before they do anything with the hall, you know what the hall is gonna look like. Some of it goes from experience and knowledge, you want to bring an outside camera so that you can pan to the right and not hit another camera. If you’re inside, you can’t do that. So you learn things like that, but you don’t know in advance what’s really gonna work for you, so if you do have flexibility under a jib, at least you can put that jib in a position where that does look good and keep it there. [INT: Right. Exactly. And keep it there. ]

INT: But what tends to happen is, and this is just the old man in me saying that the jib, they move it because they can move it. What it is in fact is this beautiful camera that you can reposition slightly, but once it’s in its jib mode, it doesn’t hold still, you got to lock it off. Then it’s fine. But until then, it’s this floating thing. [AB: I would never move a camera if I wasn’t have faith it was gonna move well.] It’s like the old Zoomar. The old Zoomars, it was really in the hands of this guy pushing the shot.
AB: The first time I used a crane on a show, I didn’t have faith in the cameraman, and I never moved it on air. I locked it in position and wouldn’t use it. Then years later, I would use it only when I had faith in the right cameraman. [INT: That’s a good lesson.] While I was very adventuresome and did some really radical things, I was always better safe than sorry when I was on the air.

INT: I like to watch these HBO super live specials, you know, the SEINFELD [Jerry Seinfeld] from Carnegie Hall or something Town Hall [I’M TELLING YOU FOR THE LAST TIME] or whatever it is because the first one has got wonderful little train wrecks in it because it’s live, and they don’t really know how to rehearse, and they don’t know exactly how to place it, but it’s got 15 cameras. But the minute it airs again, it’s been edited. All the fixes are made, and it looks beautiful. But if you catch that live one, as a director, it’s kind of fun. It’s like ten great shots and then one that just is too short. And that’s, they fixed it afterwards. Well, this has been fascinating. I’m very grateful that you found the time to come in. 60 MINUTES is a piece of work especially nowadays. Have you had to restructure the shows because of the difficulties in traveling?
AB: No. We structure, what we’re doing right now, we're really crashing the shows. We’re slowing down now, but instead of being in a sweetening room and making things better and color correcting, you know, making it good as we can, it’s just getting it on the air. We probably took it back twenty years, the way we used to do it. [INT: Well, it’s good that you could do that.] True. We’re actually, and we’re doing it in a situation, in a room that is not built for that, but we’ve gotten pretty sophisticated in changing the way we work. We’re actually marrying an Avid and an edit system together, and using the two, combining them. It’s been terrific for us. [INT: So you use the edit system, but you use the Avid kind of storage?] No. We actually, we play off to it. In other words, we’ll dump out ten in a show, and edit back into it using the Avid, reversing into it. We actually combine the two. I’m gonna try your trick of the key. I’m gonna see how that works. [INT: It has to be your best technical editor, and you just ask them and make it a challenge and see what they can do.] I’m gonna talk to him tomorrow about it. [INT: I’d be honored. It’s the whole premise of this. The premise of this is that I’m shooting it completely neutral because by the time it gets used, backgrounds and all that won’t be important…if they want flowers, they can have it, but stuff, we’ll cut out and you can rearrange it on your computer screen.] Why don’t we just put the book back in, but it’s very simple, a single still picture. [INT: Put it back in, take it out again. But the, I’ve become interested in simplicity, and so this has been an education.] Oh, it is. I got to tell ya, like I’ve said, I’ve been out there with some of the things I’ve done, but I really, if you look at my work, it’s been kind of, I think, simple. I try not to get in the way of the show. Don’t be noticed. [INT: Don’t be noticed. That if you notice the direction, then there’s something wrong with the direction.] Exactly. [INT: Say that for me ‘cuz I interrupted you.] OK. To keep it simple, stupid. You should not get in the way of the show. You want to blend the show.